I understand what you are saying. To some extent time is a factor, but the main point is that yes....you need to be better educated to work on the newer cars. Sorry if I think people should be better educated and not feeling sorry for those that think it is too complicated. They just simply don't have a logical perspective. Many here try to use personal tastes and opinions to belittle something that isn't supported by facts. But I guess if you are someone that is trying to say it is Chrysler's fault for designing something they don't like and can't work on may also not be able to form a logical fact based argument either. But I'm also somewhat surprised that Jeepers here that have built great rigs are scared (and that is what it is....fright) to work on something new. I mean, look at all the folks that make F-150s and Silveradoes, Titans, HiLux/Tacomas, etc., etc, work great off-road and they are modern vehicles with computers and detectors and more just he same.

I know I cut it out of the quote, but....High School students shouldn't be driving....too much of a risk! They need to focus on an education...not driving & Jeeps!

 

[QUOTE
Oh...and the price is whatever the vendor wants to charge. Unless someone grabs it to domain squat. But I think the fact JeepXJForum is registered, may not be fruitful.[/QUOTE]

I assure you, as of two days ago, JeepXJ-Forum.com NOT JeepXJForum.com was still a domain that was still up for grabs for 13 dollars a year. I peeked an did a search.

But you are right, nowadays it all about the money. I sometimes forget it's not like the old days of AOL and such internet gateways. Then EVERYBODY saw ALL the ads while your purchased time went by at a penny a minute and it took three minutes for a page to load.

I was just taking a walk back through my mind were "people" got together to talk about their "thing", not where some lucky jack figured out how to make money by setting on their can. (Just envious I guess)

 

If you'll allow me to quote a 1968 Mary Hopkins hit translated for a Russian 1920's song to make one last point....

Where are all the radio & TV repairmen, where are the typewriter repairmen, milk men....well, you can make your own list.

Ask you dads if they every went down to the "radio shop" with a pocket full of tubes he'd pulled out of the back of the TV when it went on the fritz, to see if he would find and replace the burned out one. (Cheese, that ones so old mold wouldn't grow on it any more.)

Milkman ever slip you a ½ pint of chocolate milk if you were up real early to get "dubs" on the sand lot for the other guys?

Mom ever told you not to close and lock the door because this was the days the "cleaners" made their delivery and things looked better when they were hung on the back of the door? (Oh, and buy the way, the milkman let himself in the house, opened the fridge and stocked it for you, milk, eggs, cheese, cottage cheese, butter, orange juice or drink, and sometimes, if you were real careful to park your bikes, skates, and skateboards out of his way, there might even be "ROCKETBAR" the freezer.

Really I'm not THAT old, just lived in a small town where those things still happened.

I told you about my Dad, his hammer, and everything looking like nails...

My dads dad could do a total tractor overhaul, in the field, with nothing more that a screwdriver, pair of pliers, a Crescent wrench and some rusty baling wire. He aired ALL of his tires by taking out a spark plug from his pickup and hooking up a "compression compressor" ??(we're still waiting for some of those Crescent wrenches to sprout!)

My moms dad was high class, working at Tinker AFB in OKC during the war. HE Had TOOLS! (and they just weren't for throwing at the dog!)

My best Christmas memory, was the year both families showed up for the holidays. My grandfathers put their heads together and went shopping together for something special. Keep in mind, these men wrote 1 dollar checks, and knew to the penny what change they had in their pockets. NOT rich grandpas!
We opened all but one present, mine. We ate dinner and I was told to change into my grubbiest duds.
All wives threatened all husbands with the direst of results if "any thing were to happen."

Only then was I allowed to open my gifts from them. Fresh from Sears & Roebuck was a ⅜ socket set and a set of chrome plated boxed/open ended.

They preceded to take my out under the tree and show me the correct way to change the oil, oil bath, filter, & the thousands of grease points to be found on a 1949 Ford and a 1961 Nash. Three more nasty, greasy, and grinning people have never been seen on earth again.

Things are changing, maybe everything is changing. for better or worse according to the "glass level theory" you prescribe to.

The shade tree mechanic is going the way of the dodo. Either we get smarter, become more skilled, but more tools, of just do those things those of us with "normal" skills can accomplish. For better or worse, better cars or worse, The one thing EVERYONE should keep in minds is, "these cars are now made to save our lives by killing themselves" don't expect to be doing this kind of the with 4 wheeler cars...maybe time to start modding something else.

 

Is this yellow one a REAL Cherokee?

 

No offense, but you don't know what you're talking about.

Being educated isn't enough for modern cars. There are many things that REQUIRE deal tools or specialty equipment.

For example, you can't program a KEY FOB on new Chevrolet's without a TECH2.

You can't replace your radio without connecting it to a MDI tool which requires connection to the GM network, which is something you can't get unless you're a dealership.

You're suggesting that people are just too dumb for modern cars, and that's such an arrogant thing to say, it actually kinda pisses me off. You're wrong for many reasons, but here are two:

1. As I said, cars are no longer being made so that they can be worked on anywhere BUT a dealership that has special equipment you CAN'T GET anywhere else.

2. Some people prefer the lower cost of older vehicles. Why spend $300 on a brake master cylinder when you can drive an older vehicle and spend $15 on one?

You call people stupid/stubborn for not wanting to commit themselves to vehicles that they CAN'T work on due to manufacturer restrictions, and don't want to have to drop $1,000 or more every visit to the dealership?

I'm sorry, but if that's how you think, you're kind of an a-hole.

As far as your comment about high school students... I started driving when I was a Sophomore in High School. My car enabled me to get back and forth to work. It taught me responsibility and self-reliance. Valuable lessons best learned at a young age. If anything, YOUR way of thinking is exactly why each new generation of youths are increasing worthless sacks of crap who just expect the government to give them everything they want/need.

Sorry, I didn't intend for this to be an attack on you, but going back and reading your post several times just really pissed me off. You've got a warped way of thinking.

 

What's the deal with this? The dealerships want to make all the money?

When the warranty is up, no on will be able to afford to repair their vehicles and they'll have to trade it in on a new car which is what the manufacturers and dealers want I'm guessing.

There's an MSN auto user review of the Chevy Colorado that this guy says he replaced the factory stereo with an aftermarket one and the On-Star wouldn't work and it triggered the check engine light, that's crazy.

 

Yes that is called a SJ. Full size cherokee

 

I think this line pissed me off the most about your rant here. Which is more logical--making a vehicle so overly complex that failure of one little electrical system (which there is tons more of in these cars nowadays) can leave you stranded, or not having to worry about electronics failing so much? Having a much simpler-designed vehicle that you'd be able to fix without getting it towed to a dealership and without paying thousands to fix it? My logic is simple: KISS. Keep it simple, ****head!

Assuming the 2014 was a trail-capable vehicle, instead of carrying around a toolbox for trail repairs I'd need to bring a laptop and specialized computer tools and electrical equipment and other BS to work on this. Keyword assuming...because we all know that this is not a truly trail-capable vehicle. It's a highly complex and electronic puddle jumper. Worthless, expensive pile of garbage, and making it so ugly adds insult to injury.

 

and a million times more of a Cherokee than this new piece of crap!

 

I love my basic motor box.

 

Duh. If you make something special enough, you can copyright the design and license everything that inter-operates with it. This is why companies run by myopic accountants and lawyers instead of actual business types despise standards. Look at how much Apple makes on those stupid giant connectors instead of just using Mini USB.

Nice... and in regions with "new" emissions testing, CEL means an automatic fail, which means your vehicle isn't licensed for the road anymore. (New DriveClean is a total ****ing scam, but you can see that this is a very bad combination.)

I see what you're saying (and agree with some of it) but I don't really think the notion of electronics is the issue here. The exact same thing was said by carburetor fans about electronic fuel injection when it came out. Toolboxes get modernized over time, just like we don't use whale oil in our transmissions anymore lol. Chrysler's very poor track record on reliability with electrics should really be the problem.

 

As a professional automotive technician who does NOT work in a dealership, it's becoming harder and harder to service vehicles since "I'm not the dealer". This isn't like when computers became the norm or when we switch to fuel injection, those where changes brought on by growing emissions standards and had requirements to allow anyone who could gain the skills and have the tools the ability to continue to fix vehicles. The newest vehicles now have the BCM have the power to override the PCM and kill the vehicle via theft deterrent. Well, the manufactures started loading a lot of bs into the theft deterrent system so that they could only fix the cars with factory scan tools. No biggie as Snap On and all had capable scan tools to keep up as long as you could pay the $5000 - $10000 price tag. Now, GM is leading the way of patenting the way the CAN network controls the vehicle. This means that GM can require the use of THEIR scan tool (GDS not Tech II) to fix simple problems.

 

Man that really sounds like it suxxx.
Correct me if I don't have it right but what I think I hear you saying is....
not only are these new cars designed to "crumple" around you, only certain kind of doctors, working for certain hospitals, using only certain tools are going to fix them...
costing certain body parts . Looking a lot like if you're not a "company man" you're going to be frozen out.
Self-defeating market strategy in the long run looks like to me. Just too damn much money involved to purchase such creations.
Only solution I see is to buy the best of the older machines you can buy and spent the $20-$30 K you would on a new one to keep the "classic" around.

 

Sadly that's the future of the industry if this keeps up which really sucks.

 

Provided they don't come up with some law banning the old vehicles...