Easy there. How ugly a car is has nothing to do with how easy it is to work on, and how easy they are to work on is related to the industry trend more than anything. Vehicles of all facets are becoming more and more complicated. Ask someone who works on tractors what they think of EPA Tier 4 emissions systems lol. Yes, that good ol' John Deere has computerized SCR now, too, and instead of producing food farmers will have to wait for DPF regen cycles.

Modernization is a fact of life; I'm sure many people were just as vocal when electronic MPFI came out! Yet today in 2013 if you say "hurr hurr I want a carburetor" you get made fun of for wanting an inferior and unreliable system that can be serviced in its entirety with a Leatherman. So people adapt. Renix people added a multimeter to their tool kit. Here in OBD-II we have ELM-327 Bluetooth adapters for our Android phones to clear codes and view data. So what? Big deal. Technology moves on.*

As an example, one thing I like about the KL is the driveline disconnection for fuel economy. Renault/AMC were on to something with the CAD D30, unfortunately it was a poorly thought-out hack that was very unreliable and didn't actually make a difference. Disconnecting a big chunk of rotating mass when not required makes a ton of sense, and if Chrysler/Fiat can do that reliably, a laudable achievement.

Features that degrade the intelligence of drivers, however, absolutely should be banned. Originally these things were sold as "enhancing safety", but they do such a good job that you take all of these fancy things away like blind-spot detection and I bet you the accident rate would ****ing SKYROCKET because people don't know how to ****ing drive.

Remember to stand upwind... if you can find that without a GPS!



* (This is of course aside from scumbag manufacturers writing proprietary interfaces that are meant to create a new revenue stream through licensing diagnostic tools - those bastards should be burnt at the stake.)

 

Chill pills for all!

I didn't mean to get a full blown brouhaha started.
I'm so sorry, just asking some questions from a bunch of guys who've been there, done that. I figured there would be pros and cons, lovers and haters, but this is a little extreme.

I undersand and enjoy sarcasm more that I should but my Daddy suggested that bar brawls are a good time to find some other place to go and to find something else to do.

As many jeeps as I've owned, work on and played with, I get it. The whole jeep thing. Personally I believe the Jeepster should be brought back!!!!

The first jeep my family ever owned was back in 62-63 and we found it parked behind a farmers barn. It had been worked hard, and put up wet.
It was a 1946 CJ-2A that had been converted over to a CJ-A3 so the farmer could pull a two row plow with it.

I love my Dad but he's one of those guys who owns a hammer, so everything looks like a nail.

At 10-11 years of age, I had a blast trying to turn that wreck into something that we could climb to the old mine sites in Colorado. Been doing that kind of thing ever sense.

Seeing people with the same kind of enthusiasm kicking each other in the fork, is "perplexing".

How about listing your (pros or cons), the reasons why you think so, and leave the (you &#@, &^%!*,and your mom) out of it.

I know, probably too much to ask, spent too many years as a teacher I guess.

Just my two copper coins.

 

I have noticed that most of us is "fu€k Chrysler and Fiat for this ugly sin without any real reasons.

Pros:
- New Technology that will fail at first but will be repaired and maybe the "next big thing"
- Jeep's attempt at trying to somewhat revive the brand. Yes, the KL is not the answer but at least their trying something with 4X4 not just some ****ing car like SUVs like the Compass and Patriot.
-Trying to put the Liberty behind them, even with the KK's modernized XJ looks many had laundry lists of problems.

Cons:
- Curvy Kia Aztec looking ugly as sin
- Doesn't look or have the setup of a Jeep
- Made up of Fiat parts (I've seen 4 Fiat 500s with leaking valve cover and rear main seals, i mean really??? 30,0000 miles? What a load of ****.)
- Attracts the crowd that Jeep people want to avoid, it's why there's Jeep people in the first place.
- Shows Chrysler is trying everything not to fail, but not taking into account it could be doing more harm then good.


Honestly, if people want to buy the KL, I say let 'em. This is America and they're free to choose their vehicle and I say Welcome to the Jeep Community. Just not Welcome to the Cherokee Community

 

Well said, thought out, and reasoned.

And nothing or nobody caught on fire!

I congregate you sir!

Having bought, hosted and managed internet domains myself, maybe it's appropriate to purchase JeepXJ-Forum.com for $ 12.99 and migrant content to the new name.

JeepXJ-Forum.com is available at the price quoted.

Might keep the rift-raft a bay.

 

Thank you sir, the firing sq er I meant fire department is on standby for the code 4 alarm if it happens.

Maybe, but rift-raft loves looking for new homes. You'd get just about every banned member from CF and the wannabe badasses who are flamed daily on Pirate would want to show up. You'd have a party of the lost souls.

 

My XJ has blind spot detection, two stick-on convex mirrors I got from Wal-Mart for 2 bucks.

 

Wait...you are actually arguing that the build quality of the AMC based XJ is better than the new KL. That is funny as hell. I certainly understand the argument of being easier to work on, but there is no way in hell you can say it has a better build quality. You need to research more about the body flex specifications, crash worthiness, weld technology, etc., etc. Perhaps you don't have an engineering background, but try your best to think like one and research all aspects of automotive engineering.

As far as the bad taste in Jeepers mouths...go back and pick up classic issues of off-roader and other magazines from the 80s when the XJ debuted, and then the 1997 refresh. Look at the criticism that SJ owners had over the new "boxy" XJ. It was such a HUGE departure from CLASSIC Jeep design of its day. This is just another evolution of design. So your perspective isn't wrong, but it also fails to understand the progress of time and context of history.

Been here just as long as you...and I'm the one who INDEXED the COTM. I'm way more familiar with what the COTM is about than you. Sorry.

Sorry...people like me are the ones that make sure society progresses, that we aren't a bunch of racist slave owners or still hail a queen. People like me, who expect progress are the reason your gas is still below $4/gal. and if needed/desired, have high mileage vehicle. It is people like me that ADVANCE society. I am sorry if one is stuck on working on vehicles of yesteryear and demand everything be dumb-downed so the typical HS drop out can work on it. Again, if you can't keep up with the technology and can't see how it isn't that hard to make a vehicle like the KL just as capable as the XJ and better in many regards, than that isn't Chrysler's (aka Fiat) problem...that is YOUR PROBLEM. I don't see it as an issue, just a challenge.

 

And idea for someone else, but this forum will never do it. The search rankings and corporate ownership would never switch. The new KL is actually a god send in terms of ad revenue generation. The mods and such may be cool (most anyway), but the non-posting owners that own many auto forum sites and put revenue as priority one (not any sort of loyalty to Jeep, Cherokees, or the owners here) means nothing major gonna change. Especially considering how touch it is for forums to exist, this forum has stayed stronger than most likely because little has changed. Not a group that likes change (reminds me of a retirement community at times....hahaha.....j/k'g).

Oh...and the price is whatever the vendor wants to charge. Unless someone grabs it to domain squat. But I think the fact JeepXJForum is registered, may not be fruitful.

 

Re-read closely, the point made is that there are several design flaws to the XJ and that I don't think it's better than the KL, just that the KL isn't the answer of the "future" and that it's electronics and 9-speed tranny are subject to typical Chrysler issues. Having a Fiat engine, will probably leak oil at appx. 30,000 miles as a majority of Fiat engines have been seeing lately.
While engineering a vehicle to perform with ever growing EPA and CAFE standards is difficult, they could have done a better job. When the XJ came out in 1984, yes it was considered different and ugly, but it at the same time attracted LARGE crowds and made it one of the most popular four wheel drive vehicles to ever be produced outselling the majority of vehicles Jeep has produced. The KL however will fail to subject large crowds as it is a cookie cutter CUV that fails in comparison to other vehicles in it's class (i.e. the Ford Escape). It is priced kinda high for what is and doesn't have quite the cargo space it's competition has. That's extremely important in attracting the non-Jeep crowd and it just won't succeed, it'll sell but won't be the CUV.
As far as COTM goes, Grands in my opinion represent as with the Wranglers how Jeep should modernize. The styling ques of the 2014 Grand are quite nice and similar with good up to date touches of previous generations. Also, the Grand has gone from absolute **** to a highly reliable, quality SUV people want to own. If a built grand is the best of the selections of COTM, there's no doubt it'd deserve being a winner for the month. With that said, a KL wouldn't make it because the majority of COTM voters are hardcore loyal MJ, XJ, WJ, and ZJ guys and girls who HATE the KL and no matter how built or how cool it looked, it wouldn't win. Not in the near future anyway.

Plus with all the JK Wrangler owners crying that Chrysler will void their warranty over lifts or bumpers that they feel don't meet their standards (some even being Mopar), why would you potentially give them the chance to make you pay for their mistakes?

 

A LIFTED Aztec with mud tires might not be so bad.




Oh wait, that looks hideous!

 

Gonna need a paper bag, either to vomit in or but over that things head. This will probably only make a lifted KL worse than it already is unless someone puts the spare and the jerry can idea that hyper.hip suggested and a really good winch and bumper to hide the ugly front end.

 

 

Wow, someone is a bit full of themselves.

What you're saying has merit but you're attacking it from the wrong angle.

Yes, modern vehicle technology is leagues beyond what it ever has been - BUT, there are plenty of drawbacks that make an older vehicle (such as an XJ) far, FAR more worthy... depending on what you need it for.

For example... How much do you want to bet that you can't even change a head light bulb on the new "Cherokee" without removing the front fascia? Maybe you don't on these, but a LARGE number of new cars require it because the engineers couldn't come up with a better way of releasing the headlight housing than hiding everything behind the fascia.

What high school kid can afford a $100 bill at a shop just to replace a head light?

Also, it's far harder to make something like the KL as capable as an XJ than you seem to think.

You just can't go changing suspension geometry on a newer vehicle the same way you can on an XJ. You can't just throw large tires and wide rims on it and hit the trail. You can't just throw in a different type of fuel injector. For every benefit of the modern age that the KL boasts, there is a draw back, if not two.

If you're truly suggesting that those of us who prefer simple design over today's convoluted engineering nightmares, then do me a favor - go job shadow at a dealership for a while. Maybe you'll start to understand that while these modern designs are good in some ways, they are terrible in others.

We are approaching an age where you will NEED a technician such as myself to change your oil, install new bulbs, or even rotate your tires.

Ever done front brakes on a Chevy Colorado with the torsion bar suspension? No? Guess what it pays... 5.5 hours.

5.5 hours for brakes? Yeah, because you HAVE to remove the entire wheel hub assembly, take it over to the bench and THEN separate it from the brake rotor.

 

Tell me more, How was it? Did it have a warm fuzzy JEEP feel, or was it more like sitting in a BMW?

 

+1000 I hate doing rotors on the Colorado. Most vehicles as of 2012/2013 are getting to the point you need the factory scan tool to really fix anything soon enough just to reset oil life. Chevy Malibu requires the bumper to be removed for any front lights, Dodge Charger requires removal of the air box for the left headlight assembly.
Kia, feels like that or Daewoo is probably the answer lol