Eh it's not just a matter of miniaturization and electronics. First year runs of engines have problems with the valve train, first year runs of manual trannies bearing problems. The problem is a manufacturing process that's untested and a product that hasn't had all the kinks worked out. Besides, if an XJ's AW4 blew up the torque converter and some debris trashed a valve body you're not about to fix that in your driveway short of just replacing both units lol

 

s34gk, jake92, salad, shelbygt nsm, 95 cherokee, j wheeler and all.

Sure wish I knew how to insert a picture right here. It lives on my hard drive and is of my J10 pick up. I tried to set it as my ID picture.
I tend to lurk, read, learn and laugh on the very few forums I join.

Bit off subject, but a quick test...Find the "Avatar" ,image, whatever, I used to ID hyper.hip and tell me what is different about that J10 from any other J10 you've ever seen. There'll be a test at the end of class.
Sorry, 20+ years as a teacher & computer IT person.

OK, back to the subject...teething problems with first run products.

All of you are right...the American consumer as a whole are nothing but paying "beta" testers. I know of which I speak having beta tested educational software for companies. One Mac program that had been ported to Windows was sent to me as a "Golden Master", in other words the company said it had "finished" the program and was to release it within a month. It was such a piece of crap, I spent all night one night taking the "splash screen" (the first image you see when opening a program) and writing & drawing a little program just for the programmers. It had an image of the splash screen on which I opened a door in the middle of the image and had a conga line of cockroaches dancing endlessly across the screen to the tune of La Cucaracha!
One of the young turk programmers emailed back and I quote "I guess you think it's too buggy to release yet?"
DUH

One last example of the way the American consumer has been victimize by "ourselves" and the bean counters called CFOs.

Boy, I'm going to catch a flame big enough to melt both ice caps for this!

Mr. Gates & Windows Vista>Windows 7>Windows 7 SP2 and the like. They still don't have it right. Don't believe the crap about added features & value...that's just double talk saying "boy, we're screwed the pooch & we're trying to fix it as fast as we can before someone stops paying us money to be lab rats.

Cars are the same...about the time they finally get it figured out and right, CFOs say, "diminishing returns, refresh the line blah, blah, blah." Off to that fondly remember junk yard of yesteryear.

I may be way off base here but very few of us here make our livings as a "garage mechanic". We know which end of a hammer to turn a screw with and get a kick out of it.
The XJ/Jeep family of 20-30 years ago were simple enough, with help from groups like this, for us to "do" things to our rides and take pride in it. It's fun and carries more than a little "Machismo" with it. (apologies to the fairer sex who can turn a wrench & like to "show up those hairy apes you have to put up with."

Here I'm going to get my feet toasted again...but with the possible exception of the Wrangler and looking 20-30 years in the future, do your really think you're going to be restoring/modifying Cherokees, Grand Cherokees, Compass, & Patriots with your offspring or grand offspring (how's that for PC from an old fart?)

Guys, we're not talking the 70's era of hardened, simple, electronics NASA put in the Voyagers...not the 80s-90s CRT Sony TVs we'll finally have to give to Goodwill so we can get that cheap big screen TV.

Granted the "mechanicals" engine, drive train, maybe a 9 speed trannie, differentials, are going to last much longer than their 50s, 60s & 70s counterparts with less trouble.
It's the "bits" that connect the other "bits" that are going to turn into "recyclables" while STILL IN THE CAR!

So yes, buying a first year run of any car is not the smartest thing to do.

The day of Willis & American Motors are over. No longer are Jeeps built from a little bit of Ford, a ½ cup of Buick (look it up if you don't believe me), a dash of of Chrysler and just a smidgen of Briggs & Stratton with a light sprinkle of International Harvester. Sometimes those decisions were made by the bean counters, other times by damn good engineers who didn't see the sense of reinventing the wheel.


Finally to Salad...I wish my 26 year old son had his head as screwed on as well as you seem to.
Damn good questions...

First off, the smart butt answer....I don't have to look at the thing YOU do. I'm inside my "Aztec" looking out at your stuff! :>)

Why not a Grand Cherokee....to tell you the truth, if I could find a 1991 360 cubic inch Grand Wagoneer with 60 grand on the odometer, kept in a garage, that was driven to church and the drags on Sunday, I'd buy it.

The real answer is....there is just me. One rubber band kid (26) lives with me and he'll NEVER be given the keys as long as there is breath in my body. (I'm working on an exit strategy to get him out of my house, love him but...)
My ex is tripping to Europe on the money I thought WE'D retire on. I live closer to 4 other state capitals than I do to my daughter who lives in Austin (our state capital) would like to visit without taking out gas money loans.

I priced several plain jane trucks. Not talking Hemi's or Raptors here. Short box, reg cab, with 4x4. Haven't been without four wheel drive for 30-40 years and not about to start now. MSRP $30,000 with NOTHING on them.

Another smart butt answer... I live in Texas, not Vermont or Maine.

Real answer.... I've read really good things about Sub's.
Would really consider one but...
My dad is still alive and in pretty poor health, there is twenty seven years between us. The "Greatest Generation" is what his cohort of like aged people are called now. If his son were to buy a "kraut or jap" machine that helped kill his friends, I would really disappoint him. Silly, old fashion, & stupid are terms that could be used for him and for me for respecting his wishes. Would you buy an Iraqi anything much less a $30,000 something?

Ok, one last intelligent derriere answer...

I use Colgate tooth paste (not that jell junk)
I buy Levi jeans (normally 2-3 pairs at a time)
I find a shirt I like the cut & fit of, I buy 2-3 of them in different colors.
I use Barbasol shave cream.
I work on & build Windows computers but buy Mackintosh.
Lord, I even have little white Apple stickers on the back of my XJ.
I own Ruger & Marlin firearms.
I drink Dr. Pepper and Coors.
Takes me 20 minutes to buy groceries.
2 hours to Christmas shop for everyone.
I drive Jeeps.
Typical male (at least I think I am) ☺

Real reason....I love the ugly little froggy faced Juke.
Fun to drive, goes like stink, kind of AWD.

Would have one but reference answer above about Dad, and even though my 1996 Grand Cherokee was "lilac" in color (Been on the car lot a long time and got a good deal on it) it didn't bother me one bit to drive it. Looked silver sometime. (so I told myself)
But around here too many Dad's really would like a Juke but give it to their teenage girls to drive. (I suspect if they're caught driving one it's "Oh,it's my daughters car')

If I pull the trigger, it will be the six, it will be the TH, against all reason, it will be this years model, just call me a brain damaged lab rat like most Americans.

On JeepForum.com and the KL thread, I've been contacted by a guy who works for Chrysler.
Learned some things about configuration preview pending order forms and the figures on them.
We all know what MSRP is, most of us know that FWP means dealer invoice minus dealer hold-backs from the factory. There are a couple of other numbers at the bottom that are pretty interesting.

One if FFP.
That means friends & family price.
The other number is EP.
Employee price.
On what I want..
MSRP 34,665.
FWP 33,298 + 100, the offer I got.
FFP 33,040
EP 31,708

Now keep in mind, I still believe in Santa.
Young man thinks he can swing a price between FFP & EP for me and have it built before Christmas.
Shipped to my dealer. I walk in, hand dealer official Chrysler documents, pay the price listed and drive off.
No cost to me.

Maybe the Brooklyn Bridge is for sale again!

We'll see, at least he isn't a Nigerian Prince.

 

Very well written. Especially the last bit I still think you're a bit crazy, though! When's Service Pack 1?

 

Good luck if it breaks down.

 

If you like the KL, you are not my friend! Death to false jeeps!

 

As others have said, Good luck! I am a chrysler tech as well , and i am scared for ya! They blended a dart, liberty and a 9 speed together and thought they'd call it a cherokee. ewwwww

 

@hyper.hip that might be one of the best replies I have ever seen on this site.

 

I don't have a problem with the concept of the new Cherokee. I would be in the market for a small street-ute when my 2wd XJ commuter kicks the bucket(maybe at 500k miles? -lol)
But dang the styling...! Does it come with a Justin Bieber vehicle wrap option to complete the embarrassment? Even Kia and Hyundai offer more handsome/common sense appearance. And that is sad.

 

I completely understand your post. Is that because I'm 59 and worked in dealerships, mostly in Service and Parts for a large part of my life? I, too, have those friends in engineering.........

 

Thank you Mr. Salad & Mr. Moore for your kind words.
Even a certifiable lunatic can sometimes sound like he's reasonable.
Mr. Salad, just like OS software Service Packs, autos undergo "refreshes" in the second or third year of manufacture. (sometimes faster with software) but the auto press will talk about new tail lights, bolder lines, or some such fluff. Behind the scenes the engineers are going "Holy Poop! We got to fix that crap and now, but the lawyers won't let us admit we've breed the puppy because it will cost us the company family jewels. I know, let's "refresh" the machine and talk about the scented **** wipes while we fix our screw ups. We just won't say anything thing about that part!

In short Service Pack 1 = first "refresh"

 

Sorry sir, I've only got to look at it as I walk up to get in, and walk away after getting out. You've got to look at it more than I do, they are very pleasant inside. Drive one.

I love the round port hole windows & the **** carpet on the walls and roof. The water bed in the back and the air brushed death heads on the side panels. (you are old enough to remember custom vans aren't you?) World didn't end then & most likely won't because the KL doesn't look like a "real Jeep."
How about the change from round headlights to rectangular headlights. We're still here.
How about when the Wrangler stopped adding a rear external spare tire framed by two Jerry Can holders?
Some Russian just banged his shoe on the desk and the world went on.
I didn't mean to come on so strong but really, it's just a car, yes, a Jeep and that means something to a lot of people, but just a car.

I will give away for free an idea that could make you a LOT of money. If you're real good with CAD programs, design an external spare tire holder framed by two Jerry Cans that blends in with the overall look of the KL but replaces it's ugly butt. You'll be an instant captain of industry.

Don't worry about Justin B, he and Miley Cyrus will release a sex tape together and they'll fade from the public eye. No car wrap necessary.

 

Cruiser,
Damn, that's a relief! I thought I was the only one.

The only thing you have to worry about is if your older than God, uglier than the devil, and your hair line is determined to meet your butt crack. If you meet those criteria, your doomed.

But if this guy turns out to be Nigerian, I'll shoot him myself. :>)

Finger and toes crossed he's the real deal. If so, for close to the same money I can afford the "Electronics Group" That way if I fall and can't get up, the Cherokee will come to my rescue.

No really, after five years I'l have dozens of things that don't work and I can come back here and have a five course crow dinner in front of all the haters who ended up buying a LK too.

:>)

 

Darn, if they had just offered a Oil Burner, it'd be a "Perfect Storm"

Oh, by the way, you wouldn't want my first born, but I could make you a pretty good offer on a ranch in Texas for the a COPY of the Service Manual , Parts List, & Wiring Diagrams DVD issued with the TH.

 

That's why they have a huge department called "Service Engineering".

I was a Parts Manager, Service Manager, and Shop foreman at a Jeep dealer for over 12 years. Before that, it was Datsun.

For sure, I would NEVER buy the first year of any model.

 

I like the answer, alot. Still, not for me lol.


The problem however with this "Cherokee" is not just the styling or the fancy Crapsler electronics and transmissions (um, things they're not good at) but also the silly **** like this:

https://jeep.promo.eprize.com/effect...v1513Facebook3

The Cherokee Effect? Really? A street team? This KL project just gets weirder and weirder, I mean SRT MAY get in on the action:

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/07/09/j...er-srt-workup/

Maybe SRT can fix some of the styling issues.