2001 XJ Sport
I'm having some issues with my aftermarket LED left turn signal. About a year ago, I installed some armor panels in the rear that has their own light boxes built-in. Bought all the necessary lights and pig tails to wire everything up and it all worked good up until about 2 weeks ago. I noticed I didn't have any brake lights on the left or right. The armor panels lights are all LEDs and almost a year old exactly. The brake/running/turn signals operate like a YJs rear lights. Had to run my wires through one of the Tekonsha 119130 tail light converter used for trailers. Stock wires run to converter, which in turn runs to the lights. Front lights work perfectly.
Individually, the lights work fine. It isn't until I introduce running light signal that I start getting issues. The left brake light is much dimmer than it should be. Barely noticeable unless you're right up on the light. Turn signal is so dim, it may as well not even work in the first place.
I'm 99% certain its not the lights themselves, as I've tested all my wiring with different model lights and also on new replacements of the lights currently in there; Same results. Swapping the left and right lights also give the same issue. There are new ground wires on fresh bare metal on the left and right side of the vehicle for both lights. I'm reusing the stock ground point behind the trim where the spare tire would mount. New wires running from harness to tail light converter with new splices and butt connectors. New tail light converter as well, wired in the same configuration as the the first one I wired in a year ago. I replaced the multi-function switch on the column with a new one the other day, but that hasn't alleviated my issues. Took apart and cleaned the old one and threw it back in there and returned the new switch since it wasn't the issue. Also installed a new brake light switch on the pedal but that didn't change anything either. I'm running out of ideas to try to figure this out so now I'm turning to you guys to see if anyone has anything they think I should try. The only thing I haven't tried is replacing the actual headlight switch yet. Ordered that today but it's not going to show up until Thursday.
It boils down to this essentially:
Turn signals work by themselves with no running lights
Running lights work by themselves.
Brake lights work by themselves.
Running AND brake lights work together.
Right turn signal works with running lights.
Right turn signal works with brake light.
Left brake light is very dim when running lights AND right turn signal are on.
Left turn signal is very dim when running lights are on and brakes are applied.
Going out on a limb, I tested to see if there was voltage running through my ground wires/ground points. Curiously, when testing the chassis to the negative lug on the battery, I get 0.05V. Between the OG ground wires and the body I get 0.02V - 0.03V. What's going on there? Exposed wire somewhere?
I've probably done a **** poor job trying to put this into words so let me know if there's more clarification I can make or more info I can give.
I'm having some issues with my aftermarket LED left turn signal. About a year ago, I installed some armor panels in the rear that has their own light boxes built-in. Bought all the necessary lights and pig tails to wire everything up and it all worked good up until about 2 weeks ago. I noticed I didn't have any brake lights on the left or right. The armor panels lights are all LEDs and almost a year old exactly. The brake/running/turn signals operate like a YJs rear lights. Had to run my wires through one of the Tekonsha 119130 tail light converter used for trailers. Stock wires run to converter, which in turn runs to the lights. Front lights work perfectly.
Individually, the lights work fine. It isn't until I introduce running light signal that I start getting issues. The left brake light is much dimmer than it should be. Barely noticeable unless you're right up on the light. Turn signal is so dim, it may as well not even work in the first place.
I'm 99% certain its not the lights themselves, as I've tested all my wiring with different model lights and also on new replacements of the lights currently in there; Same results. Swapping the left and right lights also give the same issue. There are new ground wires on fresh bare metal on the left and right side of the vehicle for both lights. I'm reusing the stock ground point behind the trim where the spare tire would mount. New wires running from harness to tail light converter with new splices and butt connectors. New tail light converter as well, wired in the same configuration as the the first one I wired in a year ago. I replaced the multi-function switch on the column with a new one the other day, but that hasn't alleviated my issues. Took apart and cleaned the old one and threw it back in there and returned the new switch since it wasn't the issue. Also installed a new brake light switch on the pedal but that didn't change anything either. I'm running out of ideas to try to figure this out so now I'm turning to you guys to see if anyone has anything they think I should try. The only thing I haven't tried is replacing the actual headlight switch yet. Ordered that today but it's not going to show up until Thursday.
It boils down to this essentially:
Turn signals work by themselves with no running lights
Running lights work by themselves.
Brake lights work by themselves.
Running AND brake lights work together.
Right turn signal works with running lights.
Right turn signal works with brake light.
Left brake light is very dim when running lights AND right turn signal are on.
Left turn signal is very dim when running lights are on and brakes are applied.
Going out on a limb, I tested to see if there was voltage running through my ground wires/ground points. Curiously, when testing the chassis to the negative lug on the battery, I get 0.05V. Between the OG ground wires and the body I get 0.02V - 0.03V. What's going on there? Exposed wire somewhere?
I've probably done a **** poor job trying to put this into words so let me know if there's more clarification I can make or more info I can give.
CF Veteran
Actually I think you've done good fully describing the symptoms & what you've already tried.
Personally I can't imagine it being any more likely that it's the light switch than the multi-function lever.
Despite everything, to me this is a classic poor ground fault, so my starting point would be a separate ground wire from the left light socket to a known good ground.
Personally I can't imagine it being any more likely that it's the light switch than the multi-function lever.
Despite everything, to me this is a classic poor ground fault, so my starting point would be a separate ground wire from the left light socket to a known good ground.
Turns out you were half right! Figured out where and why my issues were ever a thing. I did the new grounds and nothing changed, so I started tracing every wire in the back of the vehicle. As it turns out there were some wires grounding out in the lift gate. The bundle at the top had pinned itself against the screw tab inside the lift gate where the left screw for the third brake light goes. The vibrations eventually caused that tab to cut into a couple wires and expose copper. Explains why I was only getting issues when brakes were applied and why I was measuring low voltage when testing the chassis and stock ground wires against the negative lug on the battery. Painted on some liquid tape and let it dry, wrapped it in some cloth loom tape, and threw some convoluted tubing around it to keep it from happening again. I'll keep an eye on it over the next few days and see if the symptoms come back, but when I was outside testing everything again, none of the symptoms were there.
Except the alternating turn signals in the front don't alternate when the brakes are applied, but I'm chalking that up to how the brake light converter is wired in. Honestly, I'm not worried about that too much since I intend to go back to stock wiring when I get my JCR bumper. I can replace the reverse lights in the armor panels with proper amber turn signals and move the reverse lights to the bumper cutouts. That's down the road though, which is why I needed all of this taken care of first.
Except the alternating turn signals in the front don't alternate when the brakes are applied, but I'm chalking that up to how the brake light converter is wired in. Honestly, I'm not worried about that too much since I intend to go back to stock wiring when I get my JCR bumper. I can replace the reverse lights in the armor panels with proper amber turn signals and move the reverse lights to the bumper cutouts. That's down the road though, which is why I needed all of this taken care of first.
Judging by your response, I'll assume that my side markers are not supposed to alternate with the turn signal when I signal a turn! I assumed it was like that by design but I guess it's not supposed to be doing that at all.
When the running lights are on and I signal a turn, the front facing signal operates normally but the side marker on that side alternates with that blinker. While the signal light is at full illumination, the side marker is only at running light brightness. When the blinker light returns to running light illumination, the side marker is at full brightness. They alternate like that so long as the turn signal is engaged. Like I said, i just thought that was a quirky but intentional feature so I just left it as-is. If I worded that in a roundabout way I can always shoot a video if needed.
I think my issue with the side marker not blinking like it should when signalling a turn is likely due to how I've got the rear blinkers and brake lights wired through that taillight converter module. And it's more likely that my "alternating" quirk is probably because I've got the LED in the socket backwards. Matter of fact, I'll probably head outside right now and check that since its easy enough to flip the LED bulb around. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt anything to try. Worst case is that I remove the wires from the side markers and wire them how I want them.
It's not a pressing matter, to be honest, but I'd figure I'd ask anyways.
When the running lights are on and I signal a turn, the front facing signal operates normally but the side marker on that side alternates with that blinker. While the signal light is at full illumination, the side marker is only at running light brightness. When the blinker light returns to running light illumination, the side marker is at full brightness. They alternate like that so long as the turn signal is engaged. Like I said, i just thought that was a quirky but intentional feature so I just left it as-is. If I worded that in a roundabout way I can always shoot a video if needed.
I think my issue with the side marker not blinking like it should when signalling a turn is likely due to how I've got the rear blinkers and brake lights wired through that taillight converter module. And it's more likely that my "alternating" quirk is probably because I've got the LED in the socket backwards. Matter of fact, I'll probably head outside right now and check that since its easy enough to flip the LED bulb around. At the very least, it wouldn't hurt anything to try. Worst case is that I remove the wires from the side markers and wire them how I want them.
It's not a pressing matter, to be honest, but I'd figure I'd ask anyways.
Alternating front signals is correct operation. With the headlamps on, you should get a half brightness front turn signals, and side marker illuminated. When you signal a turn, you will get alternating full brightness of the front turn signal and the side marker on and off.
If you swap back to incandescent lights, does everything work normally? I don't know about the 96+ but I had to do some significant rewiring to get LEDs working with the correct operation at the front of the vehicle. It's due to the way the factory wired the front turn signals to operate as described above.
Check out my post here: https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/le...2/#post3626544
If you swap back to incandescent lights, does everything work normally? I don't know about the 96+ but I had to do some significant rewiring to get LEDs working with the correct operation at the front of the vehicle. It's due to the way the factory wired the front turn signals to operate as described above.
Check out my post here: https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/le...2/#post3626544
CF Veteran
It's all to do with the way sidemarkers are wired, they have no ground but are strung between the turnsignals & running lights. That means they flash normally, i.e on-off-on - until the lights are on, then they flash off-on-off. There's a technical term for that, which I can't remember, but that is what gives the appearance of alternating with the turn signals. Of course LED's don't like that because, until very recently, they were all polarity sensitive. Personally, I don't think XJ's need LED sidemarkers, in fact they are so bright, I've put 3w bulbs in mine.
All that said, it has absolutely nothing to to do with with OP's rear light issue.
All that said, it has absolutely nothing to to do with with OP's rear light issue.
The rear lights are more or less fixed at this point. I was just curious why my front side markers stop blinking when brakes are applied. They just completely turn off while the rest of the blinkers continue normally. I'm chalking it up to how the rear lights are wired through the converter, but wasn't sure if someone else had experienced that particular issue.
All said, I'm not terribly worried if the side markers don't blink when braking, so long as the front and rear operate normally. I'll eventually be going back to stock wiring and removing the light converter so this is all just temporary. Hopefully, when everything is back to stock configuration I won't be seeing all these strange symptoms that I have to do damage control on to stay legal.
All said, I'm not terribly worried if the side markers don't blink when braking, so long as the front and rear operate normally. I'll eventually be going back to stock wiring and removing the light converter so this is all just temporary. Hopefully, when everything is back to stock configuration I won't be seeing all these strange symptoms that I have to do damage control on to stay legal.