Ignition Upgrade Advice & Guidance
12-21-2011, 03:05 PM
#1
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Year: 1996
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0litre
Ignition Upgrade Advice & Guidance
I'm going to be doing an ignition system upgrade on my Heep and was needing some advice for part numbers.
My plan is I am going to be installing a MSD 6A Ignition box and wanted to upgrade my distributor cap to something that has the plug terminals spaced out more on the distributor cap than what the factory unit has. I have read various articles about something called a "team rush"(what the he** is "team rush") I6 upgrade with supplied part numbers for a ford cap base extender and cap/rotor assembly that I think will work on our systems but the part numbers don't seem to be current anymore. (I have the various web sights saved if anyone wants to read the articles)
If anyone has any experience with doing this type of setup and could supply me with current part numbers for what I need to achieve this type of setup I am describing as well as any other sage words of advice I would be most grateful(Dead).
I am also looking for suggestions on spark plug type and gap spacing for this type of setup as well. I was thinking iridium plugs but was unsure as to how much to open the gap up.
My plan is I am going to be installing a MSD 6A Ignition box and wanted to upgrade my distributor cap to something that has the plug terminals spaced out more on the distributor cap than what the factory unit has. I have read various articles about something called a "team rush"(what the he** is "team rush") I6 upgrade with supplied part numbers for a ford cap base extender and cap/rotor assembly that I think will work on our systems but the part numbers don't seem to be current anymore. (I have the various web sights saved if anyone wants to read the articles)
If anyone has any experience with doing this type of setup and could supply me with current part numbers for what I need to achieve this type of setup I am describing as well as any other sage words of advice I would be most grateful(Dead).
I am also looking for suggestions on spark plug type and gap spacing for this type of setup as well. I was thinking iridium plugs but was unsure as to how much to open the gap up.
12-21-2011, 04:18 PM
#2
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Year: 1998
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don't have personal experience with the MSD Ignition or the "team rush" mod... but this intrigued me to look up some quick info...
i had recently read a build project that involved a Ford 3.0 V6 distributor... he mentioned the reason for using it, was it uses a 6 event shutter wheel, as opposed to the Jeep 2 event shutter wheel... the shutter wheel in combination with the hall effect sensor send timing signals to the ECM, so it computes when to fire the upcoming plug... from what i have understood, there's no reason to upgrade HO 4.0's dizzy
the "team rush" mod looks to be an upgrade for carbureted 4.2L
... don't quote me on that... just all the quick info i've read is on the pre HO 258
why are u wanting to do all this?... faster start-up? smooth out idle? better throttle response?
i'd say for faster start-ups, upgrade your mains... i've got 1 AWG leads & grounds, 136A alt, & my start up was VASTLY improved
smoother idle & better throttle; upgrade injectors, spark plugs, intake tube/manifold, & exhaust
i've also read, there's not much improvement with high end spark plugs... that you can't get better than a set of champions... i'll be going with e3's
i had recently read a build project that involved a Ford 3.0 V6 distributor... he mentioned the reason for using it, was it uses a 6 event shutter wheel, as opposed to the Jeep 2 event shutter wheel... the shutter wheel in combination with the hall effect sensor send timing signals to the ECM, so it computes when to fire the upcoming plug... from what i have understood, there's no reason to upgrade HO 4.0's dizzy
the "team rush" mod looks to be an upgrade for carbureted 4.2L
... don't quote me on that... just all the quick info i've read is on the pre HO 258why are u wanting to do all this?... faster start-up? smooth out idle? better throttle response?
i'd say for faster start-ups, upgrade your mains... i've got 1 AWG leads & grounds, 136A alt, & my start up was VASTLY improved
smoother idle & better throttle; upgrade injectors, spark plugs, intake tube/manifold, & exhaust
i've also read, there's not much improvement with high end spark plugs... that you can't get better than a set of champions... i'll be going with e3's
12-21-2011, 06:38 PM
#3
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Year: 1996
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Engine: 4.0litre
don't have personal experience with the MSD Ignition or the "team rush" mod... but this intrigued me to look up some quick info...
i had recently read a build project that involved a Ford 3.0 V6 distributor... he mentioned the reason for using it, was it uses a 6 event shutter wheel, as opposed to the Jeep 2 event shutter wheel... the shutter wheel in combination with the hall effect sensor send timing signals to the ECM, so it computes when to fire the upcoming plug... from what i have understood, there's no reason to upgrade HO 4.0's dizzy
the "team rush" mod looks to be an upgrade for carbureted 4.2L... don't quote me on that... just all the quick info i've read is on the pre HO 258
why are u wanting to do all this?... faster start-up? smooth out idle? better throttle response?
i'd say for faster start-ups, upgrade your mains... i've got 1 AWG leads & grounds, 136A alt, & my start up was VASTLY improved
smoother idle & better throttle; upgrade injectors, spark plugs, intake tube/manifold, & exhaust
i've also read, there's not much improvement with high end spark plugs... that you can't get better than a set of champions... i'll be going with e3's
i had recently read a build project that involved a Ford 3.0 V6 distributor... he mentioned the reason for using it, was it uses a 6 event shutter wheel, as opposed to the Jeep 2 event shutter wheel... the shutter wheel in combination with the hall effect sensor send timing signals to the ECM, so it computes when to fire the upcoming plug... from what i have understood, there's no reason to upgrade HO 4.0's dizzy
the "team rush" mod looks to be an upgrade for carbureted 4.2L
... don't quote me on that... just all the quick info i've read is on the pre HO 258why are u wanting to do all this?... faster start-up? smooth out idle? better throttle response?
i'd say for faster start-ups, upgrade your mains... i've got 1 AWG leads & grounds, 136A alt, & my start up was VASTLY improved
smoother idle & better throttle; upgrade injectors, spark plugs, intake tube/manifold, & exhaust
i've also read, there's not much improvement with high end spark plugs... that you can't get better than a set of champions... i'll be going with e3's
I was thinking about upgrading the injectors but for my year Heep it is a real pain in the ***. My fuel pressure regulator is attached to the fuel sending unit. I don't see the point too in doing injectors without upgrading the ignition system first.
The team rush mod is for a 4.2litre engine but I was hoping that it was so similar to our 4.0litre that it might work. They had the part numbers for the cap, rotor, and extension they used but I can find those parts anywhere.
The reason why I am looking to update the distributor cap and us an extension is to cut down on potential arching between the posts from using a CD(capacitive discharge) ignition box.(If this may even be the case.) I have not found any concrete evidence to support that this actually will occur but in theory it makes some sense.
The idea behind going with the MSD6A ignition box is to get a more consistent voltage to the plug, better fuel economy, quicker start up, more consistent power output, just a whole heck of a lot more efficient than our stock setup.
I do know that the only plug that you should use for the older XJ's is the Champion copper core, you don't gain anything buy going with a different plug unless you update the ignition system.
12-21-2011, 09:11 PM
#4
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ok, few misconceptions on both our ends... the shutter wheel & hall effect sensors are descriptions of TYPES of sensors, that arent only located in our distributors... ignition timing is sensed through various sensors... Cam Position Sensor, Crank Position Sensor, MAP, TPS, & IAC
in your case...
in your case...
I was thinking about upgrading the injectors but for my year Heep it is a real pain in the ***. My fuel pressure regulator is attached to the fuel sending unit. I don't see the point too in doing injectors without upgrading the ignition system first.
yes, 96+ XJ's fuel pressure regulator (FPR) is in the tank with the sending unit, but filter is in-line, outside the tank... 97+ is all one module in the tank... changing injectors DOES NOT require increasing pressure, unless you've upgraded cam shaft or have higher compression... in which case you need to know if your engines fuel curve, which injectors to use with it & flow rate is needed... http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...r_Upgrades.htm
The team rush mod is for a 4.2litre engine but I was hoping that it was so similar to our 4.0litre that it might work. They had the part numbers for the cap, rotor, and extension they used but I can find those parts anywhere.
there are significant differences between 4.0 & 4.2... & when it comes to the "team rush" mod... i think its only for carbureted systems, in which case there's HUGE differences (ECM, timing sensors, etc.)
The reason why I am looking to update the distributor cap and us an extension is to cut down on potential arching between the posts from using a CD(capacitive discharge) ignition box.(If this may even be the case.) I have not found any concrete evidence to support that this actually will occur but in theory it makes some sense.
The idea behind going with the MSD6A ignition box is to get a more consistent voltage to the plug, better fuel economy, quicker start up, more consistent power output, just a whole heck of a lot more efficient than our stock setup.
the HO 4.0 distributor is as consistent & efficient as possible... everywhere i've read about adding MSD ignition, say it's pointless... mild benefit for strokers... insignificant for N/A (naturally aspirated) 4.0's
seriously, consider upgrading your mains... u WILL get quicker start ups & overall less voltage drop, allowing to utilize available voltage & amperage more efficiently
I do know that the only plug that you should use for the older XJ's is the Champion copper core, you don't gain anything buy going with a different plug unless you update the ignition system.
IMO, & i might be incorrect, but better air flow (intake & exhaust), better fuel atomization (VIA 4 hole injectors), & more efficient spark (e3's, double platinum, or iridium plugs) will produce better mileage & performance
yes, 96+ XJ's fuel pressure regulator (FPR) is in the tank with the sending unit, but filter is in-line, outside the tank... 97+ is all one module in the tank... changing injectors DOES NOT require increasing pressure, unless you've upgraded cam shaft or have higher compression... in which case you need to know if your engines fuel curve, which injectors to use with it & flow rate is needed... http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...r_Upgrades.htm
The team rush mod is for a 4.2litre engine but I was hoping that it was so similar to our 4.0litre that it might work. They had the part numbers for the cap, rotor, and extension they used but I can find those parts anywhere.
there are significant differences between 4.0 & 4.2... & when it comes to the "team rush" mod... i think its only for carbureted systems, in which case there's HUGE differences (ECM, timing sensors, etc.)
The reason why I am looking to update the distributor cap and us an extension is to cut down on potential arching between the posts from using a CD(capacitive discharge) ignition box.(If this may even be the case.) I have not found any concrete evidence to support that this actually will occur but in theory it makes some sense.
The idea behind going with the MSD6A ignition box is to get a more consistent voltage to the plug, better fuel economy, quicker start up, more consistent power output, just a whole heck of a lot more efficient than our stock setup.
the HO 4.0 distributor is as consistent & efficient as possible... everywhere i've read about adding MSD ignition, say it's pointless... mild benefit for strokers... insignificant for N/A (naturally aspirated) 4.0's
seriously, consider upgrading your mains... u WILL get quicker start ups & overall less voltage drop, allowing to utilize available voltage & amperage more efficiently
I do know that the only plug that you should use for the older XJ's is the Champion copper core, you don't gain anything buy going with a different plug unless you update the ignition system.
IMO, & i might be incorrect, but better air flow (intake & exhaust), better fuel atomization (VIA 4 hole injectors), & more efficient spark (e3's, double platinum, or iridium plugs) will produce better mileage & performance
Last edited by xj^REMY; 12-21-2011 at 09:14 PM.
12-22-2011, 10:11 AM
#5
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Year: 1996
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Thanks for some of the corrections, I think, lol. I was aware that the 1996 XJ had an internal fuel pressure regulator and that the fuel filter is outside the tank for this year.
As to after market injectors requiring higher pressure in the fuel rail, I reckon it depends on the type of injector you use, I will bow to your knowledge on this point. Have yet to do much research on this yet but am intrigued by what I have been reading about the swaps people have been doing on this forum.
As to upgrading the leads, I think that is a great idea for a vehicle this old and will do that. Thanks for the advice.
As to the MSD6A not making much difference, I have to disagree with you on this one. The MSD6 ignition box is a CD unit, which boils down to that you will get constant voltage throughout the RPM band which in turns leads to less wasted fuel. The stock distributor I will agree is a good piece of hardware, but it is still old school technology, why do you suppose that new vehicles now use coil packs on each cylinder? Now if you use your XJ as a grocery getter than well yeah I can see how it would be somewhat pointless to use the MSD box, regardless you will still reap some benefits from it. But for a trail rig that sees high RPM's a lot than that is where the MSD box will shine.
I was just curious to know if anyone has done a cap extension and a distributor cap that has the plug connections spaced out further apart. Electricity does take the path of least resistance, that being between the rotor and cap but is it possible for a higher voltage spark to jump between terminals? According to Ohio Edison it is, high voltage electricity loves to jump through the air.
As to after market injectors requiring higher pressure in the fuel rail, I reckon it depends on the type of injector you use, I will bow to your knowledge on this point. Have yet to do much research on this yet but am intrigued by what I have been reading about the swaps people have been doing on this forum.
As to upgrading the leads, I think that is a great idea for a vehicle this old and will do that. Thanks for the advice.
As to the MSD6A not making much difference, I have to disagree with you on this one. The MSD6 ignition box is a CD unit, which boils down to that you will get constant voltage throughout the RPM band which in turns leads to less wasted fuel. The stock distributor I will agree is a good piece of hardware, but it is still old school technology, why do you suppose that new vehicles now use coil packs on each cylinder? Now if you use your XJ as a grocery getter than well yeah I can see how it would be somewhat pointless to use the MSD box, regardless you will still reap some benefits from it. But for a trail rig that sees high RPM's a lot than that is where the MSD box will shine.
I was just curious to know if anyone has done a cap extension and a distributor cap that has the plug connections spaced out further apart. Electricity does take the path of least resistance, that being between the rotor and cap but is it possible for a higher voltage spark to jump between terminals? According to Ohio Edison it is, high voltage electricity loves to jump through the air.
12-22-2011, 05:01 PM
#6
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wonder y no one else is to chiming in... 
if u'r interested, here's some links on upgrading mains/alternator...
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/ba...upgrade-99697/
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1069750
the 4.0 got coil packs (& in conjunction with redesigned intake manifold & exhaust) in an effort to meet more stringent emissions standards, not necessarily performance... yes, i agree with u that coil packs will sustain a more consistent spark in higher RPM's...
by all means, if u feel it'd benefit to install an aftermarket ignition module, go for it... make sure u note MPG's + performance (dyno specs would be best) beforehand, to compare to after... i still think its not worth the investment... quality cap/rotor, 8 or 8.5mm wires, plugs, & i'd call it a day
"trail rig that see's high RPM's"...
... what kinda wheeling do u do?
if u'r interested, here's some links on upgrading mains/alternator...
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/ba...upgrade-99697/
http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1069750
the 4.0 got coil packs (& in conjunction with redesigned intake manifold & exhaust) in an effort to meet more stringent emissions standards, not necessarily performance... yes, i agree with u that coil packs will sustain a more consistent spark in higher RPM's...
by all means, if u feel it'd benefit to install an aftermarket ignition module, go for it... make sure u note MPG's + performance (dyno specs would be best) beforehand, to compare to after... i still think its not worth the investment... quality cap/rotor, 8 or 8.5mm wires, plugs, & i'd call it a day
"trail rig that see's high RPM's"...
... what kinda wheeling do u do?
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