Misinformation is a PROBLEM
02-17-2012, 10:33 AM
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Misinformation is a PROBLEM
Alright, look, I'm no expert, but I continually see a LOT of misinformation on this site, in the OEM Tech and Advanced Tech forums specifically.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
02-17-2012, 10:41 AM
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That too. Like I just pointed out in a recent "no start" thread... A guy who proclaims that he's new to the forum and new to Jeeps PROBABLY isn't going to know what "NSS" means.
So when someone suggests "It's your NSS I told you 3 times", the OP is probably wondering "WTF is an NSS?"
So when someone suggests "It's your NSS I told you 3 times", the OP is probably wondering "WTF is an NSS?"
02-17-2012, 10:43 AM
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Alright, look, I'm no expert, but I continually see a LOT of misinformation on this site, in the OEM Tech and Advanced Tech forums specifically.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
and also
its the internet. its full of mis-information. all you can do is take what you get, and interpret it yourself.
also, check your exhaust bearings, i hear they are a big factor with no starts
02-17-2012, 10:45 AM
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Year: 1987
Model: Wagoneer
Engine: Renix 4.0
That too. Like I just pointed out in a recent "no start" thread... A guy who proclaims that he's new to the forum and new to Jeeps PROBABLY isn't going to know what "NSS" means.
So when someone suggests "It's your NSS I told you 3 times", the OP is probably wondering "WTF is an NSS?"
So when someone suggests "It's your NSS I told you 3 times", the OP is probably wondering "WTF is an NSS?"
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=what+is+a+jeep+NSS
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02-17-2012, 10:53 AM
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Year: 1987
Model: Wagoneer
Engine: Renix 4.0
I have a 92 xj with 180k that has always started with a little bit of delay. It always turned over on the first try but it always took a few seconds. This morning I try to start it and nothing. All the electrical stuff works but the engine isn't even clicking.
Any ideas/ thoughts on what could needs to be replaced would be appreciated. Thanks guys
Any ideas/ thoughts on what could needs to be replaced would be appreciated. Thanks guys
Alright, look, I'm no expert, but I continually see a LOT of misinformation on this site, in the OEM Tech and Advanced Tech forums specifically.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
I'm not trying to be rude, but if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't chime in. You could cost someone a lot of money or cause them more problems by telling them the wrong thing.
I have seen SO MANY people respond to "car won't start" threads with advice that's COMPLETELY off base.
For example, the OP will say "lights and everything come on but the starter doesn't even make a click", and some people chime in with "check all of your grounds and connections and test the battery and alternator" without citing the OBVIOUS answer: Test the starter. Or even more simple than that, just test the battery.
I'm tired of reading advice telling people to do all of this work to test a simple problem.
Diagnosing no-start, no-crank, no-power, or no-fire issues DO NOT require a full inspection of every wire and or ground on the vehicle.
There are VERY simple steps to checking these things, but people still feel the need to recommend a bunch of complicated, pointless steps before even trying the simple stuff.
So I'm just asking nicely, those of you who like to throw suggestions against the wall and see what sticks, PLEASE exercise some restraint and consider that you could be sending someone down the wrong trail, costing them valuable time and money.
Last edited by jakbob; 02-17-2012 at 10:55 AM.
02-17-2012, 10:54 AM
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jak- I just gave an example. Obviously is the problem is not covered by the simple diagnosis, then we go more in depth. But the first, immediate response to "Jeep won't start" shouldn't be "Fuel pump is probably bad that happened to me once so that's probably what it is for you" or crap like that.
As far as googling... No, they shouldn't. We're a community here. We're supposed to help each other. It takes a few seconds for you to type out Neutral Safety Switch and avoid the confusion altogether.
The reason people come here with problems is to talk to people who have experience with these vehicles, but sometimes people let their experience complicate what could otherwise be a VERY simple answer.
Jeep won't crank?
Test your battery. Test your starter. Wiggle the shifter, throw it in neutral, try to start. None of that worked? Inspect your connections. All good? Now we're getting into more complicated territory that DOES require more in-depth advice.
And you're right, it does take a few seconds to inspect your wires, but I can't really think of any time that a battery cable would come off and you still have your lights and accessories.
As far as googling... No, they shouldn't. We're a community here. We're supposed to help each other. It takes a few seconds for you to type out Neutral Safety Switch and avoid the confusion altogether.
The reason people come here with problems is to talk to people who have experience with these vehicles, but sometimes people let their experience complicate what could otherwise be a VERY simple answer.
Jeep won't crank?
Test your battery. Test your starter. Wiggle the shifter, throw it in neutral, try to start. None of that worked? Inspect your connections. All good? Now we're getting into more complicated territory that DOES require more in-depth advice.
And you're right, it does take a few seconds to inspect your wires, but I can't really think of any time that a battery cable would come off and you still have your lights and accessories.
02-17-2012, 10:57 AM
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Mis-reading is a PROBLEM also. engines dont click. so you assumed that you were right and everyone else was wrong. instead of hopping on the bandwagon of users that were asking "wait, is the motor turning over and not running, or is it the starter that is clicking?" end note, dont assume and make rant posts. no one likes them. you put stuff like that on facebook.
EDIT: For the record, I made this thread before I even saw that thread. This isn't a TODAY issue, this has happened as long as I've been on this forum. Sort of funny that the specific example I gave just so happens to be a current thread, too.
02-17-2012, 10:58 AM
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Year: 1987
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jak- I just gave an example. Obviously is the problem is not covered by the simple diagnosis, then we go more in depth. But the first, immediate response to "Jeep won't start" shouldn't be "Fuel pump is probably bad that happened to me once so that's probably what it is for you" or crap like that.
As far as googling... No, they shouldn't. We're a community here. We're supposed to help each other. It takes a few seconds for you to type out Neutral Safety Switch and avoid the confusion altogether.
The reason people come here with problems is to talk to people who have experience with these vehicles, but sometimes people let their experience complicate what could otherwise be a VERY simple answer.
Jeep won't crank?
Test your battery. Test your starter. Wiggle the shifter, throw it in neutral, try to start. None of that worked? Inspect your connections. All good? Now we're getting into more complicated territory that DOES require more in-depth advice.
And you're right, it does take a few seconds to inspect your wires, but I can't really think of any time that a battery cable would come off and you still have your lights and accessories.
As far as googling... No, they shouldn't. We're a community here. We're supposed to help each other. It takes a few seconds for you to type out Neutral Safety Switch and avoid the confusion altogether.
The reason people come here with problems is to talk to people who have experience with these vehicles, but sometimes people let their experience complicate what could otherwise be a VERY simple answer.
Jeep won't crank?
Test your battery. Test your starter. Wiggle the shifter, throw it in neutral, try to start. None of that worked? Inspect your connections. All good? Now we're getting into more complicated territory that DOES require more in-depth advice.
And you're right, it does take a few seconds to inspect your wires, but I can't really think of any time that a battery cable would come off and you still have your lights and accessories.
02-17-2012, 10:59 AM
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I read so much information before posting about a problem I could not solve. All the reading helps you understand what part names and abbreviations will be thrown at you when you post. I'm not saying there is not a problem with mis information but when people post without so much as a search, they are bound to be confused and lost when help is given.
People will suggest solutions to their own problems that have similar symptoms of the OP. That is what this section is for. Should you choose to take the advise and your problem persists then you at least know what you checked is in working order and helps you understand your Jeep that much better.
If someone wants to know exactly what their problem is without trying suggestions that may or may not fix it, they need to go to a mechanic.
02-17-2012, 11:05 AM
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Besides, in that thread, I agreed with everyone about the NSS, I just tried to explain that he probably doesn't know what NSS means and obviously if he came here to ask for help he's not very proficient with Google.
All I'm trying to say is that at FIRST, we should stick to the old Mechanics code originally taught to me by my shop teacher.
"When in doubt, K.I.S.S."
Keep It Simple, Stupid.
Can't tell you how many times I've over-diagnosed a very simple problems because the symptoms weren't the same as the last guy who had a similar problem.
Example: My battery died yesterday, but when I first turned the key, it cranked up for a second like normal, then quit. Lights and everything were on. Tried again, nothing.
Tried again, got one normal crank from it, then it stopped. Lights dimmed after that and I got no more crankage.
Hooked up a jump box and it would start, but not idle.
Every time I've had a dead battery before, it was a no-crank, or slow-crank, and no start situation. Then the starter clicked. This time it was none of that.
Tested the battery, it was bad. Put a new one in, completely fixed.