Is Fram filter bad?
CF Veteran
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 5,841
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From: In the middle of Minnesota!
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just don't think we should condemn all Fram oil filters for the sins of their base offering which I agree is crap. Not trying to defend the Extra Guard to be sure!
Last edited by tjwalker; Oct 29, 2014 at 05:58 PM.
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From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
But, I will never encourage others to buy from a company that knowingly sold sub-par oil filters to unsuspecting Jeep owners under the guise of quality and a well funded BS ad campaign.
Moderator CF K9-unit
Joined: Apr 2012
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From: Alaska
Year: 2000 sport
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: New 4.0l from s&j engines
This is my vid showing why I dislike Fram filters. Watch pro tip at end..lol I use WIX
Last edited by Dumajones; Oct 29, 2014 at 10:27 PM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 106
Likes: 1
From: Magnolia State
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Short version:
FRAM ExtraGuard, colloquially known as the Orange Can Of Death (not just on CherokeeForum), is a bottom-dollar unit made to the lowest acceptable quality average. (Just because they have QA doesn't give any indication of the quality level - just that it reaches a certain standard.) What does that mean? Basically the same as a lifetime warranty on cheap tools - it's cheap enough that they can afford to deal with failed units, and still make a buck. If you've ever broken tools from Harbor Freight you'd have experienced this.
Do they cause outright failed engines as soon as you spin one on? Not at all. They couldn't sell them! Do they gradually shorten an engine's life? Most likely.
There are a few massive reasons for this:
- The media sucks. While published filtration efficiency appears to maybe on par with WIX's cellulose media like used in the 51515 (95% @ 20 microns for FRAM, 95% at 20 microns for WIX, nominal unknown on either unit) they are very restrictive. High filter restriction causes greater back-pressure on the oil pump (wear) and more frequent operation of the bypass valve (oil unfiltered when cold).
- Construction quality is sketchy. The filters are basically cardboard that's been hot-glued together. Loose particles tend to show up in units and they're relatively easy to blow apart.
- The anti-drain-back valve is unreliable. This is the number one issue with these filters on most engines. The ABDV is reponsible for maintaining oil in the engine's galleries when the pump is not in operation. When the ABDV fails and sticks open, oil from the engine drains back into the sump. The most common problem reported with FRAM OCOD on Jeep engines is "it sounds like a diesel for a few seconds/minutes when I turn it on". That sound is an unlubricated engine running on whatever film was left on parts when the oil drained away. Obviously this is incredibly bad for moving parts. I've seen this myself and there are tons of cases of this happening documented on CherokeeForum.
If you want more info check these:
https://parts.olathetoyota.com/tundr...omparison.html
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilters/index.html
http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/forums...filters-2.html
^^ I run a WIX 51459 and have a B2-HPG waiting to go on.
Fun videos that show the insides
( WARNING ) For You Fram Oil Filter Lover's.YouTube - YouTube
Fram, Baldwin, SuperTech and Microguard oil filter cut away! - YouTube
FRAM ExtraGuard, colloquially known as the Orange Can Of Death (not just on CherokeeForum), is a bottom-dollar unit made to the lowest acceptable quality average. (Just because they have QA doesn't give any indication of the quality level - just that it reaches a certain standard.) What does that mean? Basically the same as a lifetime warranty on cheap tools - it's cheap enough that they can afford to deal with failed units, and still make a buck. If you've ever broken tools from Harbor Freight you'd have experienced this.
Do they cause outright failed engines as soon as you spin one on? Not at all. They couldn't sell them! Do they gradually shorten an engine's life? Most likely.
There are a few massive reasons for this:
- The media sucks. While published filtration efficiency appears to maybe on par with WIX's cellulose media like used in the 51515 (95% @ 20 microns for FRAM, 95% at 20 microns for WIX, nominal unknown on either unit) they are very restrictive. High filter restriction causes greater back-pressure on the oil pump (wear) and more frequent operation of the bypass valve (oil unfiltered when cold).
- Construction quality is sketchy. The filters are basically cardboard that's been hot-glued together. Loose particles tend to show up in units and they're relatively easy to blow apart.
- The anti-drain-back valve is unreliable. This is the number one issue with these filters on most engines. The ABDV is reponsible for maintaining oil in the engine's galleries when the pump is not in operation. When the ABDV fails and sticks open, oil from the engine drains back into the sump. The most common problem reported with FRAM OCOD on Jeep engines is "it sounds like a diesel for a few seconds/minutes when I turn it on". That sound is an unlubricated engine running on whatever film was left on parts when the oil drained away. Obviously this is incredibly bad for moving parts. I've seen this myself and there are tons of cases of this happening documented on CherokeeForum.
If you want more info check these:
https://parts.olathetoyota.com/tundr...omparison.html
http://www.minimopar.net/oilfilters/index.html
http://www.ihpartsamerica.com/forums...filters-2.html
^^ I run a WIX 51459 and have a B2-HPG waiting to go on.
Fun videos that show the insides
( WARNING ) For You Fram Oil Filter Lover's.YouTube - YouTube
Fram, Baldwin, SuperTech and Microguard oil filter cut away! - YouTube
You had me at "can of death"!! But thx for the elaboration none the less!! I'm sure for some of you this revisit about Fram is old news! But for rookies like myself it's good knowledge so we don't keep making the same mistake over and over! Thanks to all of you for sharing your expertise and knowledge!
::CF Moderator::
Joined: Aug 2011
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From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
You had me at "can of death"!! But thx for the elaboration none the less!! I'm sure for some of you this revisit about Fram is old news! But for rookies like myself it's good knowledge so we don't keep making the same mistake over and over! Thanks to all of you for sharing your expertise and knowledge!
Member
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 235
Likes: 1
From: Philadelphia, PA
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 i6
Yea sorry guys, i didn't mean to say the extra guard was the only one id use in an emergency. Whatever their higher end one is. Its not bad, just for the money, you could just about get any filter.
Think of it like this.
The old crap car, the Yugo. I'm sure you know of it. Notorious for being a pathetic pile of crap of a car.
Imagine if they made a decent vehicle and sold it for $30,000 - would you buy that? no, you would buy just about any other $30,000 car (assuming your in the market for a $30,000 car lol)
I agree, these topics need to be sticky fied
Think of it like this.
The old crap car, the Yugo. I'm sure you know of it. Notorious for being a pathetic pile of crap of a car.
Imagine if they made a decent vehicle and sold it for $30,000 - would you buy that? no, you would buy just about any other $30,000 car (assuming your in the market for a $30,000 car lol)
I agree, these topics need to be sticky fied
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 14,479
Likes: 805
From: Blunt, South Dakota
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.6 stroker
Some of you know I just got a stroker. It has the OCOD on it.
Thankfully it only has about 10,000 miles on the build. I'm making it a point, that the first wrench that gets turned on it will be the oil filter wrench. It is the FIRST thing coming off, LOL
Moderator CF K9-unit
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,842
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From: Alaska
Year: 2000 sport
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: New 4.0l from s&j engines
Banned
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 17
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From: tucson
Year: 1992
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Been using fram all my life on all my vehicles. Never had a single problem and I will continue to use fram as long as they're made. Just like anything. Maintain it properly and don't use fram as an excuse because your motors werent maintained properly. How many miles are you guys going before you change your oil? I change mine every 3k miles and as far as I'm concerned the fram filters did their job
Last edited by 93_xjcherokee; Oct 30, 2014 at 02:21 AM.
Herp Derp Jerp
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
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From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
Been using fram all my life on all my vehicles. Never had a single problem and I will continue to use fram as long as they're made. Just like anything. Maintain it properly and don't use fram as an excuse because your motors werent maintained properly. How many miles are you guys going before you change your oil? I change mine every 3k miles and as far as I'm concerned the fram filters did their job
CF Veteran
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 17
From: Monett, MO.
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I change my oil/filter every 3 or 4 miles and cut every filter open when I do so to check for any abnormal engine wear (Drag Car). I f you cut open a Fram and a Wix/NAPA Gold filter side by side you would never use another Fram again.
Sorry Salad I should have linked directly to his post.
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Year: 2015, 2012
Model: Grand Cherokee (WK2)
Engine: 3.6L