DCox

Hey everyone, so I've been reading around on 3-link vs 4-link vs radius arm long arm upgrades and I'm left with more questions that when I started... I bought my jeep with a "Professionally" installed BDS 4.5" lift, but have had to correct a good bit of the install myself since things were put in backwards or incorrectly(this wasn't really much of a surprise to me after all the issues I've had with mechanics). I've had the jeep for a year now and it's still on short control arms. I've been driving it more and more recently and I'm getting to the point where the ride quality is starting to bother me. It's pretty rough on anything but smooth roads and my thought is this ride quality is the way it is partly due to the short control arms and height of the lift. So I think after my research I've come to the conclusion that a 3-arm like the Cavfab alpha kit is going to be pretty cost effective, but I've read that 3-arm kits don't have enough redundancy for safe daily driving on highways. Is this really the case? I don't know what it would take to break the mounts or bolts on the control arms, but that seems highly unlikely to me. But I drive my 8 month old in this vehicle and my wife also drives it from time to time so safety is a high priority for me. When going to the 3-link or whatever kit I end up going to what else should be considered? Do I need to alter the steering set up I have now(stock with steering box reinforcement)? Do I need to change my shocks? I don't want to start a debate over which is the best I'm just looking for what's going to be safe for me and my family and also provide a better ride quality both on and off-road. Thanks so much for y'alls advice this site has been a lot of help for me since I bought the jeep!

Also if anyone lives in the Atlanta area and has a welder and wants to help for beer and to make a new friend I would consider going with a kit that isn't bolt on, but as it is I don't have access to a welder or anyone who knows how to properly weld. I'm very interested in learning to weld, but it's a little intimidating to buy a welder and start on a vehicle that I drive my family around in with no experience.

WyoCherokee

Any time you lift a vehicle, you need to address all the components. Steering, shocks, brake lines, etc. Its a must. I Daily Drive my Cav-Fab 3-link with Zero issues even without a front sway bar and on the stock LCA Mounts, sitting at 6" lift. I am also running the Cavfab steering, RE track bar and frame brace. Cav-fab does offer the same setup in a 4 link configuration if it makes you feel better. Many of the other 4 link companies offer a complete setup with their kit. Dirtbound, Cav-fab, B.Lee. , IRO, TNT, IronmanFab. Ill all boils down to how much work are you willing to do, or pay someone to do. You can get beefier LCA mount replacements(which is a good idea-ruffstuff or artec)

XJlimitedx99

Yes and no. Yes in the sense that you are losing one more connection between the body and axle. If anything happens to one of those connections (like a sheared bolt) then your axle will flop out of alignment.

No in the sense that breaking one of the bolts is highly unlikely for any well-installed and maintained system. I've never heard of anything like that happening. A three link system is better than the four link or radius arm because it eliminates torsional binding in the axle/suspension system while the axle flexes. Also, a three link is connected to the body in one more place than radius arms. Food for thought.

I know you said you're not a welder but frame stiffiners would be an excellent first step before installing your long arms. I installed long arms a few years ago and then installed stiffiners last summer. Doing the stiffiners first would have made install much easier.

You will have much more down-travel with the 3-link. Not really an issue for road use but could be for off-road. Extended brake lines are a must. You must also make sure the rest of the suspension/drivetrain is up to the task. You could potentially over extend your shocks and/or driveshaft. You could pull your diff-breather out. You could strain your factory steering components to the point of them failing prematurely. Limiting straps are the solution here but they should be the last thing on the list. It makes much more sense to buy longer shocks than it does to limit your flex to the travel of shorter shocks.

In the quest for a more comfortable ride, I'd recommend checking out your shackle angle in the rear and picking up some shackle relocation brackets if necessary.

In the quest for a safer vehicle, check out a rear disc brake swap and an H4 headlight conversion (if you haven't already).

No, you do not need to, although, at 4.5" of lift your stock steering isn't the best. You could have much better handling characteristics by going OTK (over the knuckle) with your steering or even changing from the factory inverted-y style to inverted-t or crossover. Many people do a WJ knuckle swap to get crossover steering as well as big brakes. A modification like that would make your rig drive more like a regular car again.

Again, this is not necessary but merely a recommendation for future consideration. Moving the steering OTK requires cutting and welding the trackbar bracket and there is much more involved with a WJ swap.

Probably not for road use. Your ride-height will not change by going to 3-link so your current shocks will work fine. You might find that by going to a 3 link kit you will have too much droop and over-extend your shocks. It'd be a great time to put new ones in there if the old ones aren't in great shape.

Check out some welding classes at local colleges! I took a class last spring that was great. No worries about buying equipment that won't do well in the long run and you get to play with a variety of different tools. There's a saying with welding that goes, "if you wanna learn, you gotta burn." The only way to learn is practice. Hours and hours of practice. Installing my stiffiners last summer was my first time ever welding on a vehicle. It turned into me patching my unibody rail, patching my driver's floor, and welding up some other random brackets at the same time. It is an unbelievably useful tool with these vehicles.

This is the welder I purchased. Its about one step above the absolute cheapest you can get and its been great to me so far. I have it set up with a gas cylinder which is 1000x better than using flux-core wire.

http://www.eastwood.com/mig-welder-1...5a-output.html

If you have any interest in learning to weld I highly, highly recommend pursuing it.

Sorry to dump all this info on you and push thousands of dollars of product into your face. Kind intimidating, I know, but one mod requires the next which is complimented by the rest, blah blah blah. One step at a time.

4.3L XJ

Lots of questions there. I cannot speak to the Cav Fab kit, but I run a home grown 3 link. I have had it now for the last five years and love it. I had a Y link long arm before. The 3 link is much smoother in the big bumps and I have no problems with stability or anything like that on the highway or off road. It is mostly rocks out here in CA and it hasn't fallen apart yet. As far as steering goes, 6.5" of lift is the limit on stock steering. That is due to the range of motion the tie rod ends can accommodate without getting deformed. Bear in mind that the taller you go, the more trouble with potential death wobble etc. 4.5" is a good height unless you have a reason to go higher

DCox

Thank you guys for the personal experience as well as all the additional info. I think most of the answers here were my gut feeling from reading what I could find, but it always helps hearing from those that know more and have personal experience. Would you all think it would be prudent to go with say a crossover steering set up first and then consider the long arms after or go long arms first. My stock steering is pretty tight and I'm not having any issues with it currently. Cavfabs crossover steering kit looks pretty nice since it can be run under the knuckle. I'd love their alpha kit, but without welding I wouldn't be able to relocate the track bar bracket. Any other kits you guys would suggest looking at for steering?

Great idea on a welding class XJLimited, I hadn't even thought of that before. I'll be checking out my local schools to see what's offered. Also thanks for the link on the welder. I've looked around before and that seems to be a pretty good price. I have a feeling if I get a welder it's going to open a huge can of worms for what I want to do on the jeep. Not bad for me, but my wife's going to have something to say about how much time I spend on the jeep.

Atmos

you won't be able to utilize crossover without relocating the track bar due to bump steer. You'll want to look into a T-link steering setup to avoid track bar relocation


both the radius arm and 3 link are fantastic on and off road. It all comes down to preference and availability. the only time you will notice a difference is when you're on extremely steep ledges/climbs. the radius arm will unload and the front end will feel light. that's about it, both systems will be maxed out at about 12" travel due to space limitations of the D30 and frame rail


you don't need a welding class. trial by fire, buy yourself a harbor freight welder and hop on youtube. mig is point and shoot, anyone can learn

DCox

I could be wrong, but I believe there are a couple kits (IRO, cavfab) that can be run with the tie rod over the knuckle and the drag link under the knuckle to help solve for the track bar angle. I'm still learning all this so let me know if I'm totally off on that.

Thanks for the info on the radius and 3 link. I think 12" of travel would be more than enough for the wheeling I can do around here in North Ga.

Without instruction on welding I'd always be wondering if my welds are strong enough to keep me and my family safe. Is there a way to know if welds are going to be strong enough? Youtube for this?

Really appreciate the tidbits here!

Atmos

yeah that's right! The IRO kit looks like it works pretty well and it does solve that issue


I might be exaggerating a bit. but if you're going to own a jeep and go off road, welding is a major advantage (and a fun hobby). the old harbor freight Hobart is cheap and honestly works fine enough. practice for 30min a day for a month and you'll be pretty comfortable. you can always sell it later if you decide to give up.

firebane

Hobart is a great brand and a off side model of Miller. Don't be fooled about where it is sold. I have the Hobart 140 110v welder and it will surprise you what it can do.

Atmos

yeah I like them, especially for the price. stacks dimes just fine

TRCM

1/2 the parts in my Hobart say miller on them................

Rogue4x4

I daily a 3 link. Love it. Do stiffies first.

As far as point and shoot for MIG welding, well, true to an extent...it is by far the easiest weld process out there. However, it isn't just about laying down a bead. And don't buy a China Freight welder...get a decent name welder and eliminate those issues.

The class suggestion is a good one, anyone can run a bead, but give me an educated welder vs a garage welder any day of the week.

I'm a welder/fabricator. My jeep got me into it. Started with a HF mig, it sucked, but did do what I needed it to do...but getting it setup right was a *****. Got a Miller 211, SO much easier...I have also taken classes. The great thing about classes is you learn not only how, but why, and when. When to drag, when to push, what manipulation to use, how to weld in position, out of position, and the changes needed to do so....there is a **** ton to learn.

Youtube is a good resource, but not foolproof.

Lots of idjits on the web, lol

Atmos

211 is my favorite welder to date, the autoset is a cake walk I highly recommend if you have the cash. but you're talking hundreds of dollars in price difference. if you just want to get your feet wet you can grab a Hobart and be self taught if you don't have time (or money$) for a class. and I'd take a professional tig welder over you after a couple classes. Gotta work with what you have don't discourage people from trying to do it on their own

if you've got your welder and you've got some hours into it and you're still not getting it, the class will always be available to take later

Rogue4x4

Wow, where did that come from, haha...wasn't trying to be discouraging, just the opposite, I was relaying my experience to try to help someone make better decisions than I first did. My jeep is what got me into welding and fab, and I loved it so much I left a 25 year career in aerospace to do it full time. I was self taught, but wanted to know more. So I started taking classes. It has paid off. Got my current job because of it...my teacher recommended me to them. I have worked in the industry for several years now, and I don't know everything, but have a strong desire for learning new things.

OP, get a decent midgrade machine as atmos said, unless you can afford more machine...watch vids on youtube, check out some welding forums, or take some classes if you want. I'm just saying being educated about it will pay off in the end, and your welds will be better for it.

Edit: I do know this: My welds pass ultrasonic, xray, and destructive testing. So being an educated welder isn't a bad thing, LOL