Hidden winch mount.
07-15-2018, 03:01 PM
#46
Member
I went with the BoostWerks and built my own bumper to go in front of it. Just to give an idea of what can be done. It's painted now, but no pics yet.
07-16-2018, 11:13 AM
#47
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
07-16-2018, 11:22 AM
#48
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
Why not just make it a bumper as well? I just read a few threads the other day when I was researching using d rings with a stock bumper. Your design is excellent as well. These are the other two I was reading.
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f58/st...-build-182923/
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f58/hi...-build-146522/
i think it would be best to build it also as a bumper and maybe instead of just a stubby add some pieces that extend out under the header on both sides for some added protection. The other thing about using a stock bumper over over one of these is how would one go about actually mounting the bumper when the holes for the factory brackets are already in use.
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f58/st...-build-182923/
https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f58/hi...-build-146522/
i think it would be best to build it also as a bumper and maybe instead of just a stubby add some pieces that extend out under the header on both sides for some added protection. The other thing about using a stock bumper over over one of these is how would one go about actually mounting the bumper when the holes for the factory brackets are already in use.
07-16-2018, 11:29 AM
#49
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
This is my current front bumper. When I add my exo cage I am thinking I’ll redo it and eliminate the lower bar. It’s theremostly to protect the winch solenoid box that’s getting relocated under the hood. Btw, the bumper is bolted to the stock 6 bolt location just like a stocker so with some minor bracket adjustments, slotting for shackle mounts, a stock bumper should bolt right over the winch mount. Now if that darn plasma table would just get here...
07-17-2018, 10:05 AM
#51
CF Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Andover, VT
Posts: 2,969
Received 223 Likes
on
173 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0 L
I think we all feel the same LOL.
If you're serious about producing these (obviously you are; plasma table) I would like to offer my critique for some potential design changes. As far as I know, your only major competition for a mount that also braces the steering box is Boostwerks'.
IMO the biggest thing Boostwerks' design has over yours is the sector shaft brace. I really like the idea of bracing the shaft itself opposed to the box because it takes load off of the bearings/bushings in the box, essentially putting the shaft in double shear. I foresee your steering box brace becoming sloppy over time as the box pushes/pulls on the exhaust clamp. I realize this would mean significant design changes because it requires bracing much lower than is currently there. That is just my thought as a consumer comparing the two units. Looking at your close up picture of the steering box mount, I'm wondering if its possible to sneak a narrow bearing onto the shaft above the pitman arm. My gut says no because there is not much space above the arm and it needs to seat fully on the splines but just throwing it out there. If bracing the shaft is too much of a hassle, I would like to see a beefed up box brace. The size of the exhaust clamp just has me skeptical.
Furthermore, it appears as if your fully welded design will not work with frame stiffeners, unless I missed a point addressing the extra width. That will definitely be important to incorporate. On the flip side of this, I really like the fully welded design with the vertical tie-in plates being an integral part of the design. I do not like how the Boostwerks unit ties into the side pieces with bolts. Your unit seems like it would handle an angled pull better. I also like that yours has shackle mounts tied in.
I guess that's all I got. I thought I had more comments on it. More pictures are always helpful!
If you're serious about producing these (obviously you are; plasma table) I would like to offer my critique for some potential design changes. As far as I know, your only major competition for a mount that also braces the steering box is Boostwerks'.
IMO the biggest thing Boostwerks' design has over yours is the sector shaft brace. I really like the idea of bracing the shaft itself opposed to the box because it takes load off of the bearings/bushings in the box, essentially putting the shaft in double shear. I foresee your steering box brace becoming sloppy over time as the box pushes/pulls on the exhaust clamp. I realize this would mean significant design changes because it requires bracing much lower than is currently there. That is just my thought as a consumer comparing the two units. Looking at your close up picture of the steering box mount, I'm wondering if its possible to sneak a narrow bearing onto the shaft above the pitman arm. My gut says no because there is not much space above the arm and it needs to seat fully on the splines but just throwing it out there. If bracing the shaft is too much of a hassle, I would like to see a beefed up box brace. The size of the exhaust clamp just has me skeptical.
Furthermore, it appears as if your fully welded design will not work with frame stiffeners, unless I missed a point addressing the extra width. That will definitely be important to incorporate. On the flip side of this, I really like the fully welded design with the vertical tie-in plates being an integral part of the design. I do not like how the Boostwerks unit ties into the side pieces with bolts. Your unit seems like it would handle an angled pull better. I also like that yours has shackle mounts tied in.
I guess that's all I got. I thought I had more comments on it. More pictures are always helpful!
07-18-2018, 05:36 AM
#52
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
I think we all feel the same LOL.
If you're serious about producing these (obviously you are; plasma table) I would like to offer my critique for some potential design changes. As far as I know, your only major competition for a mount that also braces the steering box is Boostwerks'.
IMO the biggest thing Boostwerks' design has over yours is the sector shaft brace. I really like the idea of bracing the shaft itself opposed to the box because it takes load off of the bearings/bushings in the box, essentially putting the shaft in double shear. I foresee your steering box brace becoming sloppy over time as the box pushes/pulls on the exhaust clamp. I realize this would mean significant design changes because it requires bracing much lower than is currently there. That is just my thought as a consumer comparing the two units. Looking at your close up picture of the steering box mount, I'm wondering if its possible to sneak a narrow bearing onto the shaft above the pitman arm. My gut says no because there is not much space above the arm and it needs to seat fully on the splines but just throwing it out there. If bracing the shaft is too much of a hassle, I would like to see a beefed up box brace. The size of the exhaust clamp just has me skeptical.
Furthermore, it appears as if your fully welded design will not work with frame stiffeners, unless I missed a point addressing the extra width. That will definitely be important to incorporate. On the flip side of this, I really like the fully welded design with the vertical tie-in plates being an integral part of the design. I do not like how the Boostwerks unit ties into the side pieces with bolts. Your unit seems like it would handle an angled pull better. I also like that yours has shackle mounts tied in.
I guess that's all I got. I thought I had more comments on it. More pictures are always helpful!
If you're serious about producing these (obviously you are; plasma table) I would like to offer my critique for some potential design changes. As far as I know, your only major competition for a mount that also braces the steering box is Boostwerks'.
IMO the biggest thing Boostwerks' design has over yours is the sector shaft brace. I really like the idea of bracing the shaft itself opposed to the box because it takes load off of the bearings/bushings in the box, essentially putting the shaft in double shear. I foresee your steering box brace becoming sloppy over time as the box pushes/pulls on the exhaust clamp. I realize this would mean significant design changes because it requires bracing much lower than is currently there. That is just my thought as a consumer comparing the two units. Looking at your close up picture of the steering box mount, I'm wondering if its possible to sneak a narrow bearing onto the shaft above the pitman arm. My gut says no because there is not much space above the arm and it needs to seat fully on the splines but just throwing it out there. If bracing the shaft is too much of a hassle, I would like to see a beefed up box brace. The size of the exhaust clamp just has me skeptical.
Furthermore, it appears as if your fully welded design will not work with frame stiffeners, unless I missed a point addressing the extra width. That will definitely be important to incorporate. On the flip side of this, I really like the fully welded design with the vertical tie-in plates being an integral part of the design. I do not like how the Boostwerks unit ties into the side pieces with bolts. Your unit seems like it would handle an angled pull better. I also like that yours has shackle mounts tied in.
I guess that's all I got. I thought I had more comments on it. More pictures are always helpful!
I thought of the frame stiffener issues also. I may make the mounts about 1/4” wider overall and add 1/8” spacers for those that don’t need them. Or offer 2 versions. The need for stiffeners on the front is substantially reduced with my mount due to the extreme amount of bracing and tieing both sides together. I may offer a uweld it kit to so you can adjust as needed.
Again, thanks for the ideas and feed back, always welcome.
07-18-2018, 07:13 AM
#53
CF Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Andover, VT
Posts: 2,969
Received 223 Likes
on
173 Posts
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0 L
I'd say its not so much the requirement of stiffeners but designing the product in a way that you're not restricting your potential buyers.
As a young person with more ambition than money I'd be VERY into a DIY kit. Plus that could be a great opportunity to offer something that Boostwerks doesn't and beat their price point as well as build adjustability right into the construction.
Many stiffeners (like mine) are 10 gauge, not 1/8th. Only about a 10 thou difference but worth noting.
Just did a quick search and saw Ruffstuff, JCR and Liquid Iron Industries now offer front stiffeners that are 3/16". Dirtbound and IRO are 10 guage. Rusty's are 1/8". Something else to consider is Hooligan stiffeners (3/16") wrap onto the bottom side of the frame rail in the same place as your mount.
Another thing I thought of is making changes to fit many winches. Even if you just got your hands on some other models to confirm that they work to generate a list of winches which you know work. Again, just not to restrict your buyers and make people confident that it will work with what they have.
Last edited by XJlimitedx99; 07-18-2018 at 07:17 AM.
07-19-2018, 10:15 AM
#54
Seasoned Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Fort Collins, Colorado
Posts: 327
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
3 Posts
Year: 1998 (buggy), 1998 DD
Model: Cherokee
I've got the Boostwerks kit, I know Bryson personally (hell my house is on his way to/from work).
Talking with him, there's a reason he'll likely never DIY the winch mount kit.
He'd be fielding calls left and right on it. I have quite a bit of fab experience, and I will say installing his kit, which is a phenomenal piece, wasn't the easiest.
Bumpers are one thing, this can be a whole 'nother since each frame is slightly different, and might not allow for a DIY kit to line up the best without modifications to it.
07-19-2018, 01:28 PM
#55
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
I'd say its not so much the requirement of stiffeners but designing the product in a way that you're not restricting your potential buyers.
As a young person with more ambition than money I'd be VERY into a DIY kit. Plus that could be a great opportunity to offer something that Boostwerks doesn't and beat their price point as well as build adjustability right into the construction.
Many stiffeners (like mine) are 10 gauge, not 1/8th. Only about a 10 thou difference but worth noting.
Just did a quick search and saw Ruffstuff, JCR and Liquid Iron Industries now offer front stiffeners that are 3/16". Dirtbound and IRO are 10 guage. Rusty's are 1/8". Something else to consider is Hooligan stiffeners (3/16") wrap onto the bottom side of the frame rail in the same place as your mount.
Another thing I thought of is making changes to fit many winches. Even if you just got your hands on some other models to confirm that they work to generate a list of winches which you know work. Again, just not to restrict your buyers and make people confident that it will work with what they have.
As a young person with more ambition than money I'd be VERY into a DIY kit. Plus that could be a great opportunity to offer something that Boostwerks doesn't and beat their price point as well as build adjustability right into the construction.
Many stiffeners (like mine) are 10 gauge, not 1/8th. Only about a 10 thou difference but worth noting.
Just did a quick search and saw Ruffstuff, JCR and Liquid Iron Industries now offer front stiffeners that are 3/16". Dirtbound and IRO are 10 guage. Rusty's are 1/8". Something else to consider is Hooligan stiffeners (3/16") wrap onto the bottom side of the frame rail in the same place as your mount.
Another thing I thought of is making changes to fit many winches. Even if you just got your hands on some other models to confirm that they work to generate a list of winches which you know work. Again, just not to restrict your buyers and make people confident that it will work with what they have.
I could make them overall 3/8” wider and include shims. Idk about the wrapping around the bottom of the frame. There will be some adjustment with the holes.
The DIY kit would be a bolt pieces to your own rig, adjusting as necessary, lots of good tack welds, then remove for final welding. Precautions for weld shrinkage would be included in the instructions. I’d hope only people with the necessary skills would order this kit 🤞.
The winch plate I use is drilled for just about any lay down (horizontal) winch I can think of. Any 8-9k winch with a detachable solenoid box should work. The 10-15k winch motors and gear boxes may be to big. I’ll have to check when I get a chance.
10-04-2018, 05:57 PM
#56
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
Update;
FINALLY found a straight, uncut Cherokee that I could cut the front frame off to use for a jig. It’s amazing how many of the 2.8 million Cherokees have been hit, torched, cut up etc! Also have the plasma table set up and we are in the process of getting the patterns programmed. Hoping to have some prototypes going soon. I will keep y’all posted on my progress for those that have shown interest in these. Thank you for your patience.
FINALLY found a straight, uncut Cherokee that I could cut the front frame off to use for a jig. It’s amazing how many of the 2.8 million Cherokees have been hit, torched, cut up etc! Also have the plasma table set up and we are in the process of getting the patterns programmed. Hoping to have some prototypes going soon. I will keep y’all posted on my progress for those that have shown interest in these. Thank you for your patience.
The following users liked this post:
rich86 (02-22-2020)
10-05-2018, 08:56 PM
#57
What are the options you will be offering? Different options for installed tow hooks? Different winch sizes? Farkle accessories? Price point? Steering mount? I think these will be loved!!!
10-07-2018, 11:23 PM
#58
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
“Farkle accessories”? The steering brace is built in. I will be updating how the steering clamp is designed. What are you looking for in tow hooks?
10-07-2018, 11:25 PM
#59
Seasoned Member
Thread Starter
Any lay down 8-9k winch with a detachable solenoid box should fit. If I get enough interest, I may develop one for the larger 10-12k winches.
The following users liked this post:
rich86 (02-22-2020)
