Minty

Hello all. I am from the UK and looking for some information.

Please excuse my imposition, I do not yet own a Jeep

I am set on getting myself a Cherokee Sport in the summer after saving a little, it will probably be a 2001 or 2002 model.

I am quite interested in a 2.5 Diesel as, over the course of a year, it would yield better ecnomy, although I am interested in any information you guys may have about running one on Biodiesel or Vegetable oil?

I'm getting one no matter what, although if I can find a cheaper way to run it, then so be it.

Thanks!

Jase.

Morat

I don't think the diesel was available in the US so you're probably asking on the wrong forum :-)

Personally I'd go with lpg, the 4.0 is a great engine and I loved mine. Look out for rust, these Jeeps don't cope well with UK weather and salt :-(

andrewmp6

From what i have seen biodiesel runs smoother and smokes less then normal diesel does.With Vegetable oil takes a lot of work you buy a kit or build one its basicly its own fuel system.Take a look at http://www.greasecar.com/ they have kits and all the info you need.

salad

Not sure about the VM Motori 2.5L, but it's bigger sibling the 2.8L seems to have a few people running WVO over at lostjeeps.com. Ive seen a couple of mentions of XJs with WVO but no idea as to their longevity

PNWjeeper

2001-2002? Are you talking about a grand Cherokee or did you mean 2000-2001?

salad

Overseas models were often delayed for a year. I believe in South America XJs were 2002 or 2003. Also the KJ was only ever called a "Liberty" in North America.

5-90

HISTORICAL NOTE: One of the original fuels Rudolf Diesel designed his engine for was peanut oil - the other being coal gas. So, running a Diesel-cycle engine (compression ignition) with veggie oil isn't anything new.

However, most newer Diesels these days are tuned to run on petroDiesel, which can make conversions difficult (you'll probably have to be able to play with timing and correct computer events.)

Also note that there are three "common" fuels in use for compression ignitoin these days - used singly or mixed in various proportions:

- Diesel. This is the typical petroleum-based stuff.
- WVO. Waste Vegetable Oil. Go suck the oil out of the chippy's vat, run it through a filter to remove solids, and treat with a lye bath to remove entrained water. NB: A Diesel engine will usually not start with WVO, which means you'll need a secondary tank for starting & warmup, running petroDiesel or greasel.
- Greasel. Also called "biodiesel" or FAME (Fatty Acid Methyl Ester,) this is WVO with some additional treatment so it behaves & combusts in a similar manner to Diesel. You can start on biodiesel, when you can't on WVO.

Biodiesel is sold "cut" in various proportions with petroDiesel - B5 (5% FAME) is usually the "thinnest cut," and it goes in steps out to B100 (which is uncommon.)

Curiously, Bxx cuts tend to cost more than Diesel (over here, anyhow) despite the feedstock and processing costing rather less (using a small tanker to transport from local restaurants, you can set up a WVO or B100 plant at home in the shed!)

Have any more specific questions? Feel free to ask! I may have to look a few things up, but others could probably help you.

(I believe you can also run a compression-ignition engine on straight propane - I used to put propane enrichment systems on heavy trucks to get them off the scales, after being downchecked for particulates. However, reprogramming of the ECU will be required - different combustion properties, stoichiometric ratios, and specific energy contents.)

Morat

In the UK you can buy 100% FAME from some (a very few) locations and it is cheaper than regular diesel due to a tax break. My wife used to run a VW Golf diesel (non turbo) on it and it ran fine, but every mechanic we spoke to warned us that the fuel pump was going to die, the seals were going to perish and that basically we were killing the car.

There are two problems with FAME, firstly if you keep it long enough (like in aboat or stand by generator) it can attract "Diesel Bug" which lives on the surface and can clog filters and injectors. The second problem is that if it hasn't been made properly it can have some of the reagents from the transesterification process left in the fuel and they DO cause problems with rubber components.
I guess I was lucky because the place I bought biodiesel/FAME from was run by someone who knew what he was doing. Also, they insisted on providing a receipt which confused me until I realised that if you get stopped by the cops and they smell burning chip fat they'll start getting heavy and if you can't prove you've paid the fuel tax or provide a receipt for your fuel it's £500 for the first offence and up to 7 years for repeat offences.

SVO (Straight Vegetable Oil ie bottles of veg oil from the supermarket) works well in the summer, but you need a heating coil on your fuel lines to make sure that it doesn't wax up overnight and gum up your engine in winter. You also need to pay the fuel tax levy or it's the same offences/fines/gaol time as above. Just for added fun, most supermarkets have a limit on the amount of vegetable oil they'll sell you in one transaction to prevent people buying veggie oil and chucking it straight into their cars.

IMO Diesel just isn't worth it in the UK when you can get a 4.0 and run it on LPG which gives you an equivalent of a 40% reduction in fuel costs. I've been running a 3.0 BMW on LPG since July last year and the fuel costs are 13p per mile. That is mainly short hard commutes on country roads - so horrible for fuel.


Just for clarity, this is all UK information - no use to people in the USA, sorry!

Here's a UK based LPG forum for the OP: http://lpgforum.co.uk/

Minty

Excellent stuff, some great info here, thank you all!

I'm really excited about getting one, it's a bit vain but it is mostly due to aesthetics that I choose one of these, I hope that I find something similar when the time comes - here's the model I refer to:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2001-JEEP-...item4d09b049bd

As for the Biodiesel question, I had already made my mind up that I was getting a Derv Jeep, but my friend told me that his friend (I know...I know) was running his machine on Biodiesel, at a cost of £0.10 per litre.

Of course, this got my attention and upon researching this I think my friend's friend is embellishing a little.

Unfortunately, I simply don't have the space to set up a WVO refinery so I think this is out of the quetions (the cost of converting would deter me anyhow), although I have found a couple of Biodiesel outlets near to me on the net so I may pay them a visit shortly to have a look at their prices etc.

So, if I got this right, I can just use Biodiesel without any modification at all?

Thanks again all.

Morat

You can use bio-diesel without modification as long as it is properly made. You might want to ask around in the local garages to hear if they are getting any diesels in with pump/seal failure.

andrewmp6

A couple of years back i looked in to making my own biodiesel,The big kit to make it was like 3 grand and took up a lot of space.With my math if the used cooking oil was free it came out to like 70 cents a gallon if i made it.If the kit to make it was cheaper and maybe smaller or more compact i would have done it.