OldTires

Okay, more than an "issue."

So I was working on my XJ yesterday (what else is Thanksgiving for) when my neighbor comes over and asks me about a problem he is having with his 2001 Wrangler. I go there and find this.

Rust has eaten away at one side of the frame that holds the crossmember.





The other side is holding, but I am afraid the inside rust is close to doing the same damage.



Other parts of the frame look okay, with surface rust only and no rot. And the Wrangler looks good otherwise, with the engine rebuilt last year. So the neighbor wants to keep it.

What are his options for fixing?

Is a new/used frame the way to go or too expensive?

Or cutting out those bad sections and welding in a good mid frame?

Any ideas on what a good used frame would cost? If it can be found.

Thanks.

RocketMouse

ouch.... that kinda hurt my eyes a bit to look at.
If he can find a frame good.... but it might be more trouble than it's worth.... depending on how much he uses it.
With a recently rebuilt motor, how about a good complete donor vehicle with a possibly a bad motor and just do a transplant?

Personally I wouldn't recommend someone to drive a vehicle with the frame compromised that much... could be an accident waiting to happen.
So my 2 cents - 1. new donor frame. 2. new donor vehicle where the motor is hosed and do a transplant with his rebuilt one.

For what it's worth.... just MHO.

RocketMouse

ouch.... that kinda hurt my eyes a bit to look at.
If he can find a frame good.... but it might be more trouble than it's worth.... depending on how much he uses it.
With a recently rebuilt motor, how about a good complete donor vehicle with a possibly a bad motor and just do a transplant?

Personally I wouldn't recommend someone to drive a vehicle with the frame compromised that much... could be an accident waiting to happen.
So my 2 cents - 1. new donor frame. 2. new donor vehicle where the motor is toast and do a transplant with his rebuilt one.

For what it's worth.... just MHO.

dmill89

Given how ridiculously well TJs (or really any Wrangler) hold their value (an 01 in good condition is still in the $8k-10k range, obviously much less with a rusted frame though) it is probably worth the cost of replacing the frame at least from a financial perspective (of course it is up to the owner if it is worth the hassle this involves, and it still isn't going to be cheap even if the vehicle's value justifies the cost), if it is truly only rotted in that area (common rust spot on TJs, salt/crud builds up between the skid-plate and frame rails and rusts the bottoms out like that), it can probably be patched if there is enough good metal to weld to(obviously this will lower the resale, but not as much as an unsafe rusted out frame would, and if the owner isn't planning on selling it doesn't matter much), but it is imperative that it is done properly by a good welder, a half-a**ed repair will make it a death-trap in an accident.


I'll echo RocketMouse that it definitely shouldn't be driven much until it is fixed properly, with the frame compromised like that (especially in the middle right under the passenger compartment) it will fold up like an accordion in an accident.

andrewmp6

Pretty much all wranglers have a frame rot problem,Used i doubt you'll find one in good shape.New your looking like 1200 dollars or more depending where you get it.A good welder could fix that but I'd double check the whole frame for rust.Or offer to buy it off your neighbor cheap enough and turn it in to a crawler with a new better frame.

OldTires

Thanks for the input, guys. All good advice. I did find a used frame on car-parts.com and the guy wants $1000 for it, but I don't know how much rust damage it has. If the used frame is good, personally, I would want that fix instead of welding, just because finding a good competent welder that can do the job is difficult.

What would be a reasonable price for a shop to swap out the entire frame?

PS It makes me angry that a car company would use such a crappy frame design and material. They should have recalled them and fixed it.

TrailerTrash

Everyone else already said most of what I was going to say

I would say the chances of finding a reputable shop willing to swap frames for a decent price is going to be hard. That is hours and hours of struggling with(most likely) rusted and seized bolts. fixing things along the way that break or need replaced. I mean you are talking about quite the project.

4.3L XJ

Personally, given the cost of replacing a frame I wouldn't do that. I would take a piece of steel tubing, 2X4X3/16" square tubing and slip that in the rusted area and weld it up. It fits nicely inside the tubing of the frame. A reputable fabrication shop could probably do it for about $400 tops

Jeepin'_Aint_EZ

That frame is junk. I would be looking for a donor.

BimmerJeeper

You call that rust? That car is like new.

dmill89

While I certainly wouldn't be happy if it was my vehicle, it is hard to complain too much when a frame rusts out on a 16 year old vehicle, at the end of the day most vehicles are engineered for a 10year/150k mi (which ever comes first) design life, while many may last much longer than that it generally shouldn't be expected (once the vehicle is beyond that age/miles you should expect any component to potentially fail at any time for any reason).


Jeep certainly isn't the only one with such issues either, as many know Toyota recalled a ton of Tacomas and Tundras for frames rusting out (many in less than 10 years), sure they recalled some of them, but some affected trucks are not covered in the recall and none of the 4Runners are despite suffering from the same issues. Once you get to the 20+ year age range rusted frames are common for just about every make where they use salt on the road.


I'm not trying to defend Jeep, but simply pointing out in this particular case the vehicle is well beyond its design life and other manufactures have had similar issues.


Personally I think road salt (NaCl), magnesium chloride, and all other corrosive/toxic de-icing agents should be banned on all public roads, as it has been proven that they are damaging not only to vehicles, but roads, bridges, and the environment as well, and there are many other options for traction/de-icing (sand, cinders, Calcium magnesium acetate, etc.) but I don't see this happening any time soon (politicians and management at DOTs are too stupid to realize or uncaring that while these might cost slightly more up front they will have savings in the long-run by not having to resurface roads, replace bridges, etc. as often).

4.3L XJ

I have to agree on the life of that rig. Road salt is an issue. In fact a good car wash in the rust belt washes the under side too and should be done at least once a week. In many rust belt areas, you won't find a car over 10 years old due to rust. But, If it was cheap and on this side of the country I would take it and repair it and have a decent Jeep out of the deal

OldTires

I agree with most of what you say, but the Jeep hasn't been abused. The engine was rebuilt (cracked head common with that year 4.0) and now the frame. Two big strikes that render the vehicle unusable to most owners who don't have the skills or money to fix. Other than that, the Jeep looks great!

RocketMouse

I think most of us are in agreement as to the main avenues to pursue.
If the body's still good, then I'd go frame route... if not, then engine transplant into a new donor vehicle.

I also agree with dmill89... but it's not just with vehicles... pretty much anything thing now days is designed with planned obsolescence in mind...without a single care about the environment at all. (regardless what comes out of their mouths, it's their actions that count...or lack there of)
It sucks that it's done with things as expensive as vehicles which for most people is a pretty substantial purchase. But like they say, you can't fight city hall....
Well, actually you can, just don't expect to win.
Until we have a world with people that are more interested in being decent human beings and giving a rats a** about the planet in front of lining their own pockets... this stuff will continue and get worse.