CPLSeraphim

In my 2002 Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, Automatic, I am replacing the engine. I pulled the engine, and we had some leaking from the torque converter but we leaked a lot from the transmission. The Torque Converter is still attached to the engine. When separated, is there supposed to be a seal in the tranny there, or is it just because of pulling the torque converter out?


I am curious about this because it would be a whole lot easier to replace now while the engine is out.

Firestorm500

Did you not unbolt the torque converter from the flywheel?

dave1123

When pulling an engine or transmission, you should ALWAYS unbolt the torque converter from the drive plate so you don't damage the transmission input shaft. It's very easy to bend the shaft. The torque converter holds more fluid than the pan so that's why you lost so much fluid.

When reassembling the engine/trans, make sure the torque converter is fully engaged with the trans pump before bolting up the engine. The torque converter should spin freely before you tighten up the bellhousing bolts. If it doesn't, it's not back far enough to engage the pump drive. It's good practice to replace the torque converter seal while you've got it apart. Also, there are seal rings on the input shaft. make sure they didn't get damaged.

The ONLY reason to pull the engine out with the torque converter still on it is if the engine is locked up.

Firestorm500

Excellent advice. I recently watched a car show on Velocity that showed an engine dangling from a hoist with the torque converter still attached.

Bad example. These guys are supposed to be "pros".

CPLSeraphim

Alrighty. Yes, the engine is locked up from a thrown connecting rod(I bought knowing it needed an engine), and that is why the torque converter is still on the flywheel. And I know the T/C holds fluid, but I mean we lost a lot, until it was almost empty, coming from the shaft in the tranny.


The question I am really curious bout is which seal is this, and how much of a pain is it to replace? I will take a picture later and post it.

dave1123

It's just a pressed-in seal similar to the tailshaft seal that the torque converter rides on. It's right in the front of the trans pump after you pull off the converter. Just use a slide hammer with a hook on it and it pops right out. After you get the seal out, you can see the two tangs that drive the pump that must fit in the slots on the torque converter.

If you didn't drain the trans pan, it's conceivable that you lost a lot of fluid.

CPLSeraphim

Thanks for the info on the pressed in seal. I am just confused since that gap seams to be where the torque converter goes into...

Ok. So something I never even thought about. This vehicle is considered a flood vehicle. The building it was stored in after the engine blew up flooded. Enough to get water in the oil pan through the whole where the connecting arm punched through. I just checked my tranny fluid, and, as it is cold, and has been setting for quite sometime, it should be between the 2 cold dots on the dipstick. It, instead, is a couple inches above the S in the dipstick. This is over full, buy a bit, and we lost a lot. I am aware that water in oil is noticeable, but I do not know how to tell if water got in the transmission fluid as well. There was dirt in the bell housing, apparently mud that had dried.

The leaking fluid was coming out around the shaft in the picture.
Is there a way to tell if it was just overfilled compared to water being mixed in? I am obviously going to change the transmission filters and fluid either way.


UPDATE: I read in my Haynes manual that seals may leak if fluid level or pressure is to high. Clearly my fluid level is way to high so that may be that.

dave1123

Yes, unfortunately, it seem there is enough water in the trans pan to raise the level high enough to allow the fluid it pour out the shaft. I sincerely hope it hasn't corroded the valve body in the trans. If it has, there isn't much of a hope to save it. It's probably a good idea to pull it now and see if it's saveable. If there's mud in the bellhousing, it may have gotten into the trans.

We posted about this vehicle before, but I wasn't aware the water got that high. It apparently flooded in thru the vent. You might want to check the transfer case and diffs also. I think the diff vents are high enough, but I'm worried about the transfer case.

I really hate to rain on your parade. I see from your pic the pump has a good coating of rust on it.

CPLSeraphim

Yes the pump is a little rusty. I am gonna go through the, starting with the tranny and o back, but this seal may not be bad then? and if it is, is in on the outside, where I could put it in without opening the transmission up?


That is something I am concerned with when it comes to the torque converter. the outside is quite rusty. I need to remove and open up to see if I need a new one. Surprisingly, this jeep really doesn't look bad, frame and floor pans and all.


Update: Torque conver is probably fine. the inside is clean, as is the fluid. Mounted on the new engine. I know, should be on transmission, but in my father in laws garage we do it his way if I want help, and that's how he always did them. Got the tranny filter and gaskets, and replaced that T/C seal;. That was far easier then anticipated. Waiting to put engine in. That is the next step.

dave1123

This is not a good thing! If the torque converter doesn't engage the pump tangs and you bolt it up, you can break the pump! I'm serious! If he won't listen, tell him you'll do it yourself. Then maybe he'll listen.

Be sure to polish the converter tube where the seal rides with some steel wool. This will ensure the rust doesn't damage the new seal.

Also, installing a new CPS is good insurance. Be sure to use a OEM Mopar one.

Firestorm500

Engine is much easier to stab if the torque converter is in place on transmission.

You're running the risk of tearing the new seal doing it his way. You wanna pull this thing apart again when all your new fluid pours out all over the floor?

CPLSeraphim

Nope.


Anyhow, all is said and done. engine is on, engine bay completely put together. Just a few bolts to tighten on the trans-engine. Then fill fluids, then drain tran pan and replace filter and new fluid and pray for the best.


I am assuming the previous owner didn't care. He used RTV gasket stuff on that seal I had to replace. That's what was throwing us off. We couldn't see the seal. Anyway, all is coming along well. I will post an update, hopefully today, hoping these bolts go in half decently