97grand4.0

Bummer, need some help with this one. Today is the last day on my sticker, so I took it in, and the guy said FAIL. Seems the power was interrupted in the last 50 key cycles, which I'm sure it was. Therefore the test results showed NOT READY for :'monitor catalyst' , monitor EVAP, monitor O2, and monitor heated O2. Aand at the top is says Readiness- FAIL.

Driving it 22 miles like the mechanic said to, he told me where to drive to, did not cure it.
There are no hard codes except code 12, as I read on the dash by cycling the key trick, "power interrupted from battery in the last 50 key cycles."
So, questions are,
1) can I clear the codes and clear the code 12 by disconnecting the battery or otherwise and will this allow the vehicle to be tested, or will I only still have to wait a new 50 key cycles by doing that
2) is this even an OBDII system,? because the data sheet for the codes says cycle the key 3 times, 4 times for 96-97 OBDII (it works with 3 cycles) and

3) if it is OBD 1, are they doing the test right? Something tells me emissions are not reportable on OBD1? I never had any issues like this before, and this mechanic is new. Everything he did he does on his Actron orance hand held scanner including uploading to the State DMV, which he did and my receipt shows.

The cops are waiting to write my ticket. Any input?

dave1123

If you disconnect the battery, your 50 key starts will have to start all over again. NY doesn't use an exhaust "sniffer" for emissions and relies on 02 info. If you had taken it in for the inspection with an expired sticker, by law he was supposed to remove the sticker before he did the test and issue a 10-day extension if it failed. THOSE stickers are white and are a flag to cops! Most small shops don't remove the sticker, but both you AND him risk getting caught because it's already uploaded to the state.

My advise is to drive it for a few days and try again. The code 12 will clear itself, so keep trying the "key trick" until it's gone. You were still valid when it was done on the last day so if it fails the next time, you should get a 10-day extension. An "expired inspection" ticket is not the end of the world, not like a DWI.

You COULD also sit in your driveway and start it 20 or 30 times, LOL. OBDI will show a code 12 every time because it means "start of test" and 55 means "end of test." OBDII will say the 50 starts BS.

BTW, my 2000 WJ is OBDII and 3 times with the key brings up the test sequence.

97grand4.0

Thanks Dave. They left the old sticker on, and even retested it for free but it still failed after they told me to go drive it 21 miles which, like a dummy I did. I'm wondering if it will stop showing the code 12 when the 50 cycles are up, or if it is always going to show code 12. I see yours will start the sequence with 3 cycles,...so ..I don't know really if I have obd 1 or 2 but am leaning toward 2.
This is such a pain in the neck, I mean did Jeep really have to program in 50 key cycles from a battery disconnect? I can see myself explaining my failed test paper with the troopers now, as I head to Liverpool, where the local cops sit at every corner waiting for someone to speed in the school zones. ugh.

dave1123

Okay, a little research. As of 1996, all vehicles sold in the US had to comply with OBD2 monitoring standards. The main way to tell which system you have is the standard system access plug under the dash. If that Actron scanner plugged in without an adapter, it's an OBD2.

The reason he told you to drive it was to allow the system enough time to monitor all the parameters it needs to correlate data. It may have failed because it wasn't warm enough, simply put. If it still failed, it must have something to do with the "50 starts" thing. IDK why it wouldn't pass with no codes set otherwise. On my OBD2 chart, a flashcode 12 only says "battery power to PCM was disconnected." The OBD1 chart talks about the 50 key cycles.

I KNOW about Liverpool and Cicero, Dewitt, Manlius & even Chittenango. They LOVE to bust young guys. I used to drive an 87 Chevy 4x4 with 33x12.5s on it. You could see their eyes glued on it, UNTIL they saw my white hair. Then they looked away! Unfair? Yes, but that's the way it is.

97grand4.0

And the thing is, the guy at the Tire shop I took it to acted like they thought I was trying to cheat the system, they were really abrupt, offered little information, and shuffled me out tout suite. In fact worse than that, they had me drive 20 miles, I left and drove 20 miles and came back in an hour, and they were still just rotten about it(, of course it still failed, )turning their backs and avoiding me like the plague. It would deflate them completely if they knew the scope of work I do on my own. I'm sure they thought I was trying to erase my codes and get inspected, they treated me like a criminal. Despite that I have gone there for about 25 years infrequently.

The owner said, "Did you disconnect the battery??? Well, did you??" I was trying to think,,did I?? So, the three of them are standing there, owner, wrench, and big bald counter guy, grilling me and I feel like am being cross examined by the DA. YES, I'm sure I did disconnect the battery but not recently, I said. "There, that wasn't so hard was it?" the owner says and walks away.

Meanwhile the rude wrench says "Do you have a scan tool?" "No...?" "You need to get one." Yeah, like the $21 I just blew isn't bad enough, and the useless drive on 690 from one end of town to the other wasn't bad enough, and missing the afternoon of work isn't bad enough, now I need to buy a $200 scan tool, for what I'm unsure. I told him I can read codes on the dashboard, apparently that simply wasn't good enough. Also there is the $11 reinspection fee, if I feel lucky.

On top of that, Chrysler's definition of the drive cycle for monitors... is the stuff of Space Shuttle landing checklists! Each monitor readiness is...a friging test procedure from GE radar in 1960.

50 drive cycles, Jeep? Really? Or is the 50 just saying the battery WAS disconnected in the last 50, not that I need 50 drive cycles.

Time for an aspirin.

extrashaky

I would go elsewhere. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior.

Do you have an Android phone? If so, you can download Torque Pro for $6 (or Torque Lite for free, but it doesn't have all the features) and buy a off Amazon for $22 (or less--there are even cheaper ones if you search). Once you have it paired, you have a full-feature scan tool for less than $30 that rivals the $300 professional units in what it can do. I run it in my Subaru all the time (for engine monitoring) and keep a second adapter in my Jeep to connect up when I throw a code or need to monitor temps. Once you pay your $6 for the app, you can download it to ALL your Android devices, so I have it on a Galaxy Note dedicated to the Subaru and on my regular phone for my XJ.

If you're on iPhone, you have to use DashCommand and a wifi OBDII adapter. I don't know the costs of those, but DashCommand will do the exact same thing as Torque.

For your specific purposes, not only can you read and clear codes, it also has an emissions readiness screen that will tell you ahead of time what the inspection is going to see. Here's a shot of mine in the Subie:



Here's my real time monitoring. I have added a couple more gauges since then:



It is well worth the money, especially if you're going to drive an older vehicle that WILL throw codes again at some point in the future.

97grand4.0

Wow, thanks for those tips Extra that is the SHIZZLE!!
Mind you I'm old school and although well schooled in electronics and computers, I still have dsl, a land line from verizon, and a trac fone. My first car was a 67 skylark and my high tech equipment was a dwell tachometer. Back then it was a safety inspection and they actually checked your front end, brakes, tires, none of that was done but I guess if it was going to f ail emissions what's the point.
However. This is cool.
So I may have to modify my behavior.
As far as going back, I know a guy in the country and his shop repairs heavy earth equipment. His mechanics would eat the tire shop wrench for lunch or maybe for breakfast, depending. I'll be giving him a call.

97grand4.0

So a buddy of mine hooked up his Centech scanner and it told him the drive cycle for my vehicle is 116 miles. News to me, and I was down to 3 not readys. Inspector said 2 to pass. By now I should have the 116 miles driven and will take to my bro tonight he has a scanner also.

dave1123

116 miles? Holy crap, that's 2 days driving my paper route for me! I've got a CEL for the leak detection pump on my WJ now, but my inspection isn't due until August. I'm going to try a JY pump first and see if that works. My scanner says all the monitors are clear and functioning. I bought an Actron CP9575 for around $90 that even has a mini USB port in it, or course I don't know all that it can do yet, but it reads the codes well.

97grand4.0

It appears my pcm is somehow becoming reset without my intervention. I checked the readiness with a scan tool today; where I was down to 3 codes a couple days ago, and having driven more than the required 116 miles, I am now back up to the original 4 codes.
I have had an intermittent problem when starting for over a year, while cranking the engine will suddenly stop for only a brief second and start cranking. It did this again yesterday afternoon. Previously I attributed this to a funky starter motor, missing flywheel tooth, or stretched timing chain. I am now starting to think that my negative battery cable, which connects first to an aftermarket kill switch mounted under the bumper, may be the culprit. If this is going south it would completely disconnect the battery. However the flaw in this theory is that the aftermarket radio in the dash does not loose it's settings. I can think of no other reason for the pcm to reset itself.?

dave1123

I suspect that kill switch is the culprit. Even my Mopar radio will retain the station presets for a short period with a power interruption. I think that has to do with capacitors in the radio taking time to discharge. I would think a better place for a security kill switch would be in the starter solenoid feed wire.

A friend of mine put a door lock key tumbler in the fender of his Corvette with a switch on the inside to disconnect this circuit. He had the 'Vette stolen twice and the cops found it just run out of gas. It was never stolen again.

97grand4.0

Ah, thanks, that's what I wanted to hear, the radio not loosing it's stations. I went out and thought I'd try to check the resistance of the switch just now with a good ohmeter. I was unable tofind any resistance, but that doesn't mean that when that starter kicks on, it doesn't burn its way out once in a while. Also one of the lugs on the cable looks a bit shabby. After I rewire the kitchen I'm doing at work today I'll try to replace the lug and eliminate the switch. I did find another guy on another forum a couple years back experiencing the same thing, interrupted cranking that reset the monitors. There was no final answer for him, but I suspect bad battery connections could do the same thing.
Also, there was something I found about having to completely reset the PCM, after changing the Cam Sensor. Now, this makes some sense, and I wonder if my recent troubles with the new aftermarket sensors (long crank times, backfiring) could be linked to not resetting the pcm after the change. Other sites seem to enforce this, some say you do and some say you dont. BTW there seems to be a bit more to resetting the pcm than just disco the battery. involving headlights on off etc.

dave1123

What I've been told is disconnect both cables and short them together, then turn on the headlights. This will completely drain the capacitors in the PCM and destroy the memory. You're going to lose the radio presets at the same time.

I just checked with my guy and he says it will pass with 2 "not ready", but not 3. You probably know that already.

97grand4.0

I do know it will pass with 2 monitors not ready but I have the 4. The naxja forum says this.:
"Info from a JEEP Technician -

This very simple procedure will Erase the “Adaptive Memory” stored inside the PCM and allow a new “Adaptive Memory” to be developed.

After performing this procedure the PCM will re-learn and store into Adaptive Memory your engines performance characteristics.

Please perform these steps exactly as they are written, in the order they are written. This will cause the adaptive memory in the PCM to be erased and cause the PCM to go into Fast Learn Mode adaptive mode.

Disconnect the POSITIVE battery Terminal and touch it to ground ( not the battery negative terminal ) for 30 seconds. The engine block or the A/C compressor pump will work as a ground. (This is to discharge the PCM capacitors, which maintain the Adaptive Memory.

Reconnect the Battery Cable
Turn Ignition Switch to the “On” position but DO NOT start the engine
Turn Headlight “On”
Turn Headlights “Off”
Turn Ignition Key “Off”


The PCM Adaptive memory has now been flashed, or erased from the PCM.

When you start the engine it will be running off a set of pre-programmed tables that come with the PCM from the factory.

When you get the engine up to operating temperature the PCM will start to collect data for the “Adaptive Memory”.

The PCM will collect data for Adaptive Memory for the first 50 Warm-up Cycles.

I am about to go out and disconnect the kill switch. Got me a nice copper split bolt connector and a new solder on lug, going to connect the bat cable to the new ground cable i put in, then the other end gets the soldered on lug and bolted to the fender wall. We shall see. Still wondering if the cam sensor could be triggering the starter faltering, and the new cam sensors didn't work because I never reset the pcm, but this is the first step. In 116 miles I should know.

I want my buick skylark with the 300 V8 back. Points open and close the primary circuit to the coil, and big spark comes out the other side.

dave1123

The GM HEI ignition was better and less of a problem MOST of the time. That's the one with the coil in the cap. My 67 Camaro was almost as good with the little window in the cap to adjust the point dwell. Get it running, stick a flex hex driver in, and adjust to 30* dwell. Done.