I'm generally not a fan of using additives. If an oil isn't doing what you want it to, switch to an oil that will.

What data do you have that shows that your brew is doing something no other oil can?

 

I ran zinc additive for a little while till I read what it can do when combined with modern oils, not good. In simple terms the additives fought each other and lowered the friction tolerance below what the oil did without the additive. The more advanced oils get the trickier they become and once they start cooking in an engine things change some more, I've decided to leave the chemistry alone and trust the people who are smarter than me.

 

I have wondered about this subject a bit. It seems that folks gravitate to a certain brand/type and will then swear by it because it delivers something that they feel is 'better'.

I would like to know how they can tell that their favorites are actually doing something 'better' than other brands/types. Do they 'feel' a noticeable difference? What difference?

I have used a lot of different types of oils in a variety of different cars and have never been able to discern a difference in 'feel' with any of them. I am pretty sensitive to what the car is doing and how it feels when I drive, but I could never identify any differences from one oil type/brand to the next.

The only exception was the time I was in a hurry and had Wallyworld do an oil change in my Neon and they spilt a bunch of oil on my exhaust header and the fuggin car about caught fire on the way home. That made me so friggin angry and I drove back to the W-mart and chewed those a-holes out and demanded a refund...which they did not yield. F wallyword! /end random rant...

 

Excellent point, and one I normally preach. Playing backyard chemist is no way to go about things. (You realize who started this thread right? See the first page lol)


This situation is pretty extraordinary, however. The reason I've done this is to try and make up for some SEVERE damage that's been done to my transmission.

When Ford built their 3/4- and 1-ton diesel pickups they used a version of the ZF6-S650 with an integral oil pump and cooler and specified Mercon V ATF with a regular change interval. GM, however, used the ZF6-S650 totally plain without a pump or cooler, just regular ol' splash lubrication off of the counter shaft, and filled it up with some bloody expensive Allison-approved TransSynd synthetic ATF. They did NOT specify a change interval, I'm not sure this was intentional, thinking that the fancy Allison juice would be a "lifetime fill", or if it was neglected. (Though I imagine it has to have been intentional as most errors are corrected through TSBs). The use of ATF is mainly for cold weather performance and fuel economy, not because it's actually the best lubricant for a gear box.

When I bought my truck the transmission had some serious issues. It made all kinds of horrible noises and it was pretty easy to tell that some serious scoring had taken place inside. Above about 65 MPH the screeching/whining in 6th gear was so bad that it made my ears hurt. When I test drove the thing I couldn't get it above a certain speed (Toronto area during the day... highways are basically parking lots) and wasn't used to how the truck overall sounded yet so didn't notice these things. Basically the transmission sounded like it was one step away from a rebuild.

Well I drained it and the MOST black substance I've ever seen came out. Darker than the engine oil, which if you've ever worked on a diesel you know is pretty black lol. I have absolute confidence that what I drained out of my 10-year-old 395,000 KM transmission was the original oil. Absolutely disgusting. There was even some suspended grit in it! Mmmm crunchy.

I looked around on the interwebs for some advice or information from other people with similar noisy ZF6 problems and I kept finding references to "TonyBIA's Secret Formula". I eventually found it here: http://www.thedieselstop.com/archive...6fpart%3D1.htm

While his explanation of what he thinks is going on isn't exactly accurate, what mattered to me is that a lot of people were trying this concoction and having great success. So I figured I'd try something similar.

I popped in to my local NAPA on a lark and see if they have any Redline MTL in stock. Sure, order it by the case they said... F that! However they carry MT-90 on the shelf There are some other differences between the two products but the main one is that MTL is a lighter gear oil at 70w80. MT-90 is 75w90 so I decided to substitute 30-weight motor oil for TonyBIA's 40-weight.

I've never heard of "Maxlife Engine protector", couldn't find it for sale nearby, and could not find ANY technical data on what it even was. But, I noticed some random Lubro Moly product on the counter. They make a product called CeraTec which is basically a boron & moly additive. I cover these a bit on the first page of this thread, there's a lot more on this stuff elsewhere (eg. BITOG). The main issues I identified with my transmission were lack of proper viscosity and scoring of bearing surfaces, the boron additive being very well suited to helping with the latter.

I wound up with 3 bottles of MT-90, 1 bottle of CeraTec, and topped it off with Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 because it was sitting in my shed. Cold weather sucks! I need to let this thing warm up a bit before driving it. (yes despite the block heater and 0/5w40 engine oil). However after about 12,000 KM the transmission is a LOT quieter and shifts quite a bit better. The first drive after the fill I noticed a significant difference, likely due to the viscosity change, but over the next few hundred KM the thing is made far less noise. Towed a car through the Rocky Mountains like a champ.

Could I have achieved the same results just by using "new" oil of the correct type? Without a doubt NO, due to the physical damage that occurred the factory-specified oil is no longer relevant to my application. There also isn't, as far as I'm aware, any product on the market that meets my requirements, as this is such a rare circumstance. It's not as good as new but it's sure cheaper than a rebuild!


Interesting. If you want an "easier" synthetic that is pretty much guaranteed to work in an AW4, Castrol has a TransMax fluid that's good for every standard the AW4 went out the door with: http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/09DFBB064CCF193E80257BA5006EB93F/$File/BPXE-99LBRT.pdf (note Dex/Merc as well as JWS 3309, which Toyota put in their A340 series)

As I understand it wet clutches are funny things. Friction modifiers and additives that are great for engines don't necessarily work well in them... for some reason I guess clutches don't engage when they're coated with solid lubricants

 

Do u ever throw your hands up in the air, then put your head in your hands while saying WTF when u see a post that reads "my engine loves this (XYZ brand) oil?

 

Maybe not that extreme, but I have shook my head at folks that believe a machine can Love anything.

I have LOLed at some of the Fram fans as they tried to defend the Fram garbage filters. I know that I won't buy a Fram filter again after my last crappy experience with one. One piece of crap oil filter cost me over $500 because that ill-fitting filter resulted in 5 quarts of oil sprayed onto my rented driveway...and that lost me the $500 deposit I had in the place, and also the 5 qts of oil.

Advertising and propaganda have a profound effect on many people and they are usually oblivious to how they have been manipulated. TPTB have mind-control down to a high-science.

 

Reading through this thread has given me an awesome idea on how to run a lube shop. How awesome would it be that when you got your oil changed by an honest biz that always used the most ideal products for your vehicle and afterwards provided you with a technical analysis of the oil that came out of the engine during the change?

If folks knew what the used oil had to say about the conditions it was working with in the motor they could make changes to their car before they became real problems and save a crap-ton of $. That alone would justify a $75-$100 lube job over a $30 one...especially if they did an air filter and maybe a few other appropriate maintenance things.

 

So I just tried this stuff out on my salad last night, and I gotta say I'm not very impressed. It's a little better than the kraft foods oil and vinegar that we normally use, but it still had a weird inherent metallic taste to it?

I still need to try it out on my feet however. Do you rub it in, or let them soak in it?

 

After reading...mind blown!
I am thoroughly convinced to use Rotella T6 at my next OCI. Don't know why I didn't before, but this was a solid read, backed by a ton of research and data, can't argue with that.

Thanks Salad!

 

Thanks, Salad. Usually when I ask such a question/issue such a challenge to someone, the last thing I get is a clear answer. Much appreciated.

 

My Jeep talks to me. Tells me things. Like "Did you see that cute little TJ with the bikini top? We have the same transfer case and wheels, and she's only a year younger... Doesn't she live just down the street? Uuuunnnhhhhh... uhoh. You might want to change the front pinion seal soon, cuz the end of my shaft is all slimy." I told him "Mr. Green Jeans, she is way outta your league and is getting way too friendly with that Ford. TJs are all stuck up anyway. I know you said YJs are 'square and kinda awkward'. I'll introduce you to a CJ, they've got some real curves." He gave me a bunch of guff about "Cougar Jeep" and then stalled in the drivethru.

So that doesn't happen to you?

Can't argue with that!

Really, the market for people who care THAT MUCH about their engines is very small. For $75-$100 you could tell them that this oil change will last 10,000 KM, orrr for $60 they could change their oil twice "and play it safe". On the logistics side, it would be difficult to tell which oil is best for which engine. Outside of enthusiast communities, for which only certain engines have, the information basically doesn't exist. Stock could quickly become a nightmare if you really want to do the concept justice.

The other thing is that cars and manufacturers are getting smarter. API-SN RC/ILSAC GF-5 really is a tight specification, and cars that require them are getting very good oil (generally). Manufacturers are also coming up with their own specs and depending on them instead of the API. For example, VW TDIs produced in the last 10 years or so get an oil like 505.1, 506.0, 507.0, etc. GM cars, and a host of others, require the use of a DEXOS certified oil. There are probably some lubricants that meet all of the above but again stocking overhead becomes an issue.

As far as regular oil analysis, I'm a fan, but it's really quite costly. Guys like Blackstone charge $25 a go and they have pretty good volume I'd say. Anybody driving a car from the last decade or so would look at a service like that and ask "why wouldn't I just use the oil life monitor in my car?"

It is a cool idea though that could work as a value-added service. I think an HONEST and KNOWLEDGEABLE shop that is a little more invested in delivering a quality product than the cheapest product would probably do well. Good oil and good filters, not dirt cheap crap and white-box FRAMs. Then if folks want a particular service, offer it. UOAs no problem, you just send 'em off somewhere (maybe contract the local CAT/TOROMONT dealer).

I believe the calcium driving up the TBN is quite reactive with olives. I know it's counter-intuitive, but green olives do not have this problem quite to the same extent as black as they are more 'raw'. If it really bothers you though you could shred a bit of carrot in to cover the flavor.

Same as Whizzo Butter. Hot rinse on your feet to open the pores, rub it in, rinse cold after 5 minutes. You can wash with mild soap or bodywash after an hour.

Cured my athlete's foot, and I'm not even an athlete!



Heh. I'm surprised someone actually read all that ****...

 

Those m'fers get real stinkin' crazy with that hi-tech blinky shizz...

http://blackops.co

 

My issue was the reverse, they wouldn't disengage well, but yes, some oils will make them slip. Even stranger: I also have a Ducati with a dry clutch. They commonly have issues with being grabby and noisy, the verified way to 'fix' them (other than dropping a month's salary on another one) is to apply lithium grease to the friction surfaces. They don't loose their grip, but engage more smoothly and controllably while being quiet. Greasing a car's clutch would surely make it slip, even a little oil will, but it works on the Duc clutches.

I was starting to seriously doubt you with that concoction, but once explained it makes sense.

 

? Let them soak in it THEN apply it to the salad dumba$$.

 

Cures athlete's tongue too.