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P0306 Will not stop!

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Old Feb 19, 2013 | 08:41 PM
  #61  
salad's Avatar
Herp Derp Jerp
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From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
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Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
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Originally Posted by may pop
The most important question is how does the computer interperate a miss. I have never been given a reasonable answer.
Does it get its miss info from the signal sent to the coil pack?
Does it get its miss info from the signal sent to the injectors?
There are no miss sensors. There is no knock sensor. I hear it counts misses then registers a code after X amount of misses. A broken valve spring will cause a miss so how is that counted?
If we knew what it counted it would be easier to fix.
Im beginning to think its a load of crap Chrysler planned into the coil pack design.

Ron
That was hiding around here somewhere... If I find the link I will post it.

What I recall is that it's actually based on the CPS. Really, the engine isn't a smooth running machine, you have a burst of energy each time a cylinder fires. The CPS is monitoring the motion of the flywheel for a "push" every time a cylinder is supposed to go. If that cylinder's turn comes up and the computer doesn't see enough of a "push" at that point it will log it. I believe it's something like X "bad" fires in a given period of time will throw a code.
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Old Feb 19, 2013 | 09:16 PM
  #62  
belvedere's Avatar
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Right, Salad, comes from the CPS. I believe the magic number for our Jeeps is 200 misfires out of 600 fires gives a code.
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Old Feb 19, 2013 | 09:17 PM
  #63  
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I love my Renix......
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 06:48 AM
  #64  
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From: London Ontario Canada
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Default Partial update

Originally Posted by cruiser54
I love my Renix......
I'm beginning to love it too.

I've been asking about how the PCM figures out a misfire too.
I fully understand how you would get a P020X (x for cylinder #). It's an electrical pulse the PCM can look for. Easily repeatable by just disconnecting an injector.
But it seems that the P030X code is purely mechanical and that has me wondering how the electronic PCM can show it without a physical sensor. And if there is a physical sensor, which is it?

Something else I've learned is that when the PCM detects a misfire it shuts off the pulse to the cylinder's injector. So as long as you have a P020X or P030X code on your system the injector will not fire until it's been cleared.

Anyways I have a partial update for you all.
I took apart the wiring harness. What a mess. Right where the lead for injectors 5 & 6 are taped off, the wires must have gotten pretty warm as the insulation was all stuck together. I peeled apart all the wires and found a broken one that I'm sure I cut while I was undoing the tape. I reconnected it with a shrink wrapped splice. I left the wires out of the black plastic holder for the time being. So far for the last few days my idle has been higher where it's supposed to be and no CEL.
But I just know I'm tempting fate. Murphy is my constant companion.
I've placed an order for valve springs. I can get 4 for $12 so I'll replace them all. Next trip to Port Huron and Harbor Freight to get a valve spring compressor.

To be continued.......................
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 08:15 AM
  #65  
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From: Parham, ON
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Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
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Originally Posted by Jamie57
I've been asking about how the PCM figures out a misfire too.
I fully understand how you would get a P020X (x for cylinder #). It's an electrical pulse the PCM can look for. Easily repeatable by just disconnecting an injector.
IIRC P020x are caused by a lack of impedance drop on the injectors when ground is applied.

Originally Posted by Jamie57
But it seems that the P030X code is purely mechanical and that has me wondering how the electronic PCM can show it without a physical sensor. And if there is a physical sensor, which is it?
CPS dude, scroll up lol

Originally Posted by Jamie57
Next trip to Port Huron and Harbor Freight to get a valve spring compressor.
No Princess Auto nearby? Not sure which is better but they carry a few

Originally Posted by Jamie57
To be continued.......................
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 08:31 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by salad
IIRC P020x are caused by a lack of impedance drop on the injectors when ground is applied.
Still throws a P020X code when you pull the plug.


CPS dude, scroll up lol
Those are I think answers. I want a verifable answer.



No Princess Auto nearby? Not sure which is better but they carry a few
Yeah but their's is $60.
I may use this tool MAYBE 3 times in whats left of my lifetime. Harbor Freight is $20 and I have to go Port Huron to pick up the valve springs anyways.
Plus I get to take the wife to Olive Garden. Wish they'd open up again in Ontario.
I like the drive too.
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 11:42 AM
  #67  
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Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
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Originally Posted by Jamie57
Still throws a P020X code when you pull the plug.
The plug on the injector? Yes that would be quite a change in impedance - infinite one could say.

Originally Posted by Jamie57
Those are I think answers. I want a verifable answer.
Fair enough. These should help:

http://www.obdii.com/articles/OBDII_...s_Testing.html
http://www.autotap.com/techlibrary/o...emystified.asp
http://www.underhoodservice.com/issu...ontentid=71962


Originally Posted by Jamie57
Yeah but their's is $60.
I may use this tool MAYBE 3 times in whats left of my lifetime. Harbor Freight is $20 and I have to go Port Huron to pick up the valve springs anyways.
Plus I get to take the wife to Olive Garden. Wish they'd open up again in Ontario.

I like the drive too.
That's quite a price difference for what it essentially the same store! Drive works for me
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 05:23 PM
  #68  
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Now we're talking Thanks!!
Got called into work so I couldn't play on the computer.


And another follow up.
I haven't seen the CEL on the dash but my copy of Torque Pro tells me I have a pending fault P0306 AND another one for the abnormal voltage at the TPS
oh Joy!
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Old Feb 20, 2013 | 09:12 PM
  #69  
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From: 3 hrs NW of Moab
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: Big 4.0L
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Originally Posted by cruiser54
CPS should not throw a P0306 code.
thanks got mine figured out bad 784 injector
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Old Feb 21, 2013 | 07:19 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by ExTrEmExJ99
thanks got mine figured out bad 784 injector
Wish my was that easy. Looks like its going to be new valve springs.
Will keep you all updated.
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Old Jul 1, 2013 | 08:32 AM
  #71  
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Default Final Follow up

For all those who hate a thread without a conclusion , here you go.
I've battled this for some time now. I didn't post a resolution after I changed the valve springs , well because it didn't work.
I had purchased a compression tester but has anyone else noticed that the plug threads on our heads are very far down the hole? First one didn't work so I ended up buying another. Finally did a test one day and found the first 5 cylinders at an even 175 PSI. The sixth however....... how about 30 PSI.
Could only be one thing. A burnt exhaust valve.
I had lost my job and was just getting back into home renovations so money was tight. I had another good 99 engine sitting around but I was really trying to get a new 0331 casting from clear water or somebody. After I got my 4:11 rear end installed I found I was getting around 11 miles to the gallon.
So I made the decision to rebuild the spare 99 head and go with it.
I'll have it on this afternoon. will give you all the results after that.
Here are some pics of my 0331 head
P0306 Will not stop!-20130630_183321a.jpg

P0306 Will not stop!-20130630_183329a.jpg
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Old Jul 12, 2013 | 06:21 AM
  #72  
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From: London Ontario Canada
Year: 2000
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Engine: 4.0
Default final final report

After running to the auto parts place to get a proper intake manifold gasket I got everything buttoned up nice. DON'T buy the head gasket set from Amazon. See the reviews for the reason.
Been driving it for 2 weeks now and what a difference. No more shaking engine. Idle is perfect. All my sensors are showing completed on my Torque Pro app.
Finally working right. I did notice a bit less power in the butt dyno. Probably from the THICK head gasket. I'll bet it lowered my compression ratio.
Anyways it's now time to start my Stoker build.
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Old Jul 12, 2013 | 07:17 AM
  #73  
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From: Mt. Sidney, Va
Year: 1997
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
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Originally Posted by cruiser54
Only way to go. I used one on this 4.6.
MAN! That is a pretty motor! Sorry for jacking this thread but, I couldn't help myself!
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Old Jul 12, 2013 | 07:22 AM
  #74  
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From: Mt. Sidney, Va
Year: 1997
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
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Originally Posted by Jamie57
After running to the auto parts place to get a proper intake manifold gasket I got everything buttoned up nice. DON'T buy the head gasket set from Amazon. See the reviews for the reason.
Been driving it for 2 weeks now and what a difference. No more shaking engine. Idle is perfect. All my sensors are showing completed on my Torque Pro app.
Finally working right. I did notice a bit less power in the butt dyno. Probably from the THICK head gasket. I'll bet it lowered my compression ratio.
Anyways it's now time to start my Stoker build.
A lot of good information here. Glad you got it fixed and I would love to do a stroker one day. Keep us posted on the build cause I would like to follow the build and learn a few tips and tricks.
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