Stock XJ Cherokee Tech. All XJ Non-modified/stock questions go here XJ (84-01)
All OEM related XJ specific tech. Examples, no start, general maintenance or anything that's stock.

HELP!!? 87 RENIX 4.0 long crank/long start

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Sep 7, 2015 | 10:18 AM
  #106  
'90Cherokee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Hacienda Heights
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by matt0106
Spark plug gaps are fine. All plugs have spark. I'm getting fuel. Shouldn't it start if my compression is fine?
If it's getting the right amount of fuel and air and a good spark at the right time yes, not just any amount of fuel and any amount of spark. You stated earlier that some of the plugs were showing weak spark. When the plug is trying to fire under compression it takes a lot more to energy to spark. Also, cranking with the plugs out takes a load off the electrical system allowing more power to the ignition further fooling the test. In open air you should be able to get over a 1/4", something to test.

The engine sound in your video is obscured by the buzzer and hard to get a diagnosis from but it sounds pretty typical of a flooded engine. Try having someone crank it at WOT (without having cranked it while not at WOT) while you sniff the exhaust pipe and see if it smells like gas. If it does smell have them hold the starter for a little bit and it may fire. If it doesn't smell at all you've pretty much ruled out something that's flooding it while parked. Have you tried restarting it right after shutting it off hot & cold? Starting fluid would be an interesting test, but if it starts it doesn't prove lack of fuel. Starting fluid will also help start something with a weak spark, low compression, and sometimes too much fuel, but still something cheap and easy to try. If it works it'll at least help you get going while you try to find the problem, at some point you're gonna kill the battery or starter with these long cranks. If the starter is skipping while starting you'll also damage the flywheel.
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2015 | 03:09 PM
  #107  
matt0106's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Little Elm, TX
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: Inline 6 cylinder
Default

Ok, so yesterday I had some time, so I sprayed some starter fluid in the air intake tube and it started right up. It ran afterwards, I drove it around some, runs just fine. I even drove it 40 miles to my friends house and back, ran just fine on the highway. But, the longer it sat, the harder it was to start without using starter fluid. This morning it didn't start without starter fluid. So, something has got to be up with the fuel. Whether it's injectors or something.
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2015 | 03:47 PM
  #108  
DFlintstone's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 24
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Default

If an engine has spark, but doesn't fire with starting fluid, it's ether compression or being flooded. You might google "wet-dry compression test". A tip, I use a section of small vinyl tube to blow the two tablespoons of oil in the cyls for the second set of numbers.

Also I might double check that CPS output while it's not starting since that literally only takes a minute....
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2015 | 05:53 PM
  #109  
matt0106's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Little Elm, TX
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: Inline 6 cylinder
Default

It did start with starting fluid yesterday. Today, I tried to start it WITHOUT starting fluid and it wouldn't. When I get home, I'm going to see if it will start with starting fluid again.
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2015 | 06:39 PM
  #110  
DFlintstone's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 24
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Default

Oh! Gotchya..I did miss that. OK..You found high resistance on the MAP ground....now I'm curious about the injector grounds. You DID clean the dipstick stud...If you intend to keep and run it, Cruiser's 27, bypassing and soldering the C-101 wires might be a thought.

I'm a little happy with this, came up with it myself. The color codes to the injectors. BUT the point is, what is the resistance on the other, ground wire?

LITTLE BALL, LONG GREEN, TEE YOUR WHITE BALL...................................


Light Blue, Light Green, , Tan, Yellow, White, then Black are the injector wire color codes. You might check.

If you know the pair in the middle is right, you only need to check one on each end.
Reply
Old Sep 10, 2015 | 10:31 PM
  #111  
cruiser54's Avatar
::CF Moderator::
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,579
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by DFlintstone
Oh! Gotchya..I did miss that. OK..You found high resistance on the MAP ground....now I'm curious about the injector grounds. You DID clean the dipstick stud...If you intend to keep and run it, Cruiser's 27, bypassing and soldering the C-101 wires might be a thought.

I'm a little happy with this, came up with it myself. The color codes to the injectors. BUT the point is, what is the resistance on the other, ground wire?

LITTLE BALL, LONG GREEN, TEE YOUR WHITE BALL...................................


Light Blue, Light Green, , Tan, Yellow, White, then Black are the injector wire color codes. You might check.

If you know the pair in the middle is right, you only need to check one on each end.
Oh, *****!!! Just use this:
Attached Images  
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2015 | 11:59 AM
  #112  
'90Cherokee's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Hacienda Heights
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by matt0106
Ok, so yesterday I had some time, so I sprayed some starter fluid in the air intake tube and it started right up. It ran afterwards, I drove it around some, runs just fine. I even drove it 40 miles to my friends house and back, ran just fine on the highway. But, the longer it sat, the harder it was to start without using starter fluid. This morning it didn't start without starter fluid. So, something has got to be up with the fuel. Whether it's injectors or something.
Cool. Now you just need to do a tailpipe sniff test while cranking. It may not be firing the injectors or you may just have a really weak spark while cranking. There are more precise ways to test but this one's fast & easy, the sniffer should tell if there's fuel going through the motor or not.
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2015 | 02:14 PM
  #113  
DFlintstone's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 24
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Default

Little Ball, Long Green, Tee Your White Ball.
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2015 | 03:19 PM
  #114  
matt0106's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
 
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 312
Likes: 0
From: Little Elm, TX
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: Inline 6 cylinder
Default

Yesterday after I got off, I tried to start it WITHOUT starter fluid, wouldn't start. Then I sprayed starter fluid into the intake and it started right up.

Here's a video showing exactly that.
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2015 | 07:10 PM
  #115  
67 GMC's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 6
From: Fort Erie, CANADA
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Default

OK-Maybe it's just my memory but didn't you start this thread with the low-fuel light on and now on this video you are still showing less than 1/4 of a tank ? I thought you were going to put in $25-30 into that tank a few dozen posts ago. Please put $20 more gas in the tank. If it's running on starter fluid, your spark, compression etc are good. I was really surprised that the two quick hits of starter fluid you gave it made it start that easy. Your gas in that tank at that level could be contaminated with water which might be causing it to run rough right after it starts fine on the ether Your oil pressure looks way too high too-unless your gauge is shot. What oil are you running? 10W-30?


Please put some premium fuel in it for a treat. How about $20 in the tank and then a new video.
Reply
Old Sep 11, 2015 | 10:07 PM
  #116  
toasterknight's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 5
From: Oregon Coast
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Default

The oil pressure pegged is the first sign of a bad sender in my experience.
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2015 | 05:07 PM
  #117  
67 GMC's Avatar
Senior Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 925
Likes: 6
From: Fort Erie, CANADA
Year: 1987
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by toasterknight
The oil pressure pegged is the first sign of a bad sender in my experience.
I think if it was going, it would be pegged when he turned the key to run. Doesn't seem to go high until the engine starts for real.
Reply
Old Sep 12, 2015 | 05:15 PM
  #118  
toasterknight's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,508
Likes: 5
From: Oregon Coast
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L I6
Default

Originally Posted by 67 GMC
I think if it was going, it would be pegged when he turned the key to run. Doesn't seem to go high until the engine starts for real.
When I broke mine it didn't peg until it was running.
Reply
Old Sep 13, 2015 | 04:24 PM
  #119  
DFlintstone's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,489
Likes: 24
From: Nor-Cal Coast
Year: 90,84
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0,2.5
Default

Mat, does that have a ceramic resistor on the inner fender near the air box? While you are cranking the fuel pump is suppose to get power from the start relay. The ECU grounds/activates the pump relay a couple secs after turning on the ign, then again after it get's a CPS signal it's running. BUT while cranking it's the start relay that provides power for the pump.

Yours might not have that resistor though. If it does, try jumping power to the rear end of it (Ign on) and see if that helps/and or check that top left terminal on the start relay, see if it's juicing the pump.

Reply
Old Sep 13, 2015 | 09:20 PM
  #120  
lunghd's Avatar
Newbie
 
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
From: The Comfy Chair
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.7L
Default

Renix oil pressure gauge pegs one way if shorted... other way if circuit is open.

Last edited by lunghd; Sep 14, 2015 at 03:17 AM.
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:51 PM.