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Burnt transmission fluid issues

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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 08:49 PM
  #1  
Ye Ol' Cherokee's Avatar
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From: Philadelphia, PA
Year: 1998
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Post Burnt transmission fluid issues

98 cherokee 4.0 AW4 trans -aprox 140k miles.

I posted on here a while back about burnt trans fluid. The fluid was brown and smelled burnt. Every single person on here advised me to do the drain/fill method. I am halfway through this process. I have already drained the pan twice and refilled it with fresh fluid. Neither time was there any noticble metal particles in the bucket.

My concern is, the shifting now is weird. Like some times its like INSANLY crisp shifts, much better than before, but there are many times where the shift has more of a thump than before, like i can feel it kicking into gear just a bit (not really a slip, just not as smooth as it should be).

What should i do ? Should i keep going with the drain and fills till its clean and pink ? or will that make it worse? Should i change the filter? i was advised not to until i finished all the drain and fill intervals. Obviously i know, if there is damage, there is damage, but i am trying to salvage this transmission as best as possible, i am in college and cannot afford a replacement.

(Note: This is previous owners doing. I am meticulous with fluid cleanliness)

Help !!
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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:19 PM
  #2  
salad's Avatar
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Keep changing the fluid. Hard to say until it's all cleaned up.

The "filter" inside the pan you don't really need to worry about. It's not like a proper oil filter that cleans fluid, it's really a screen that protects the oil pump from debris. Sure go ahead and take a peek, but don't get all excited thinking that changing it will magically fix anything.

Some things every automatic XJ owner should do include testing the TPS, courtesy of our friend tjwalker:

Originally Posted by tjwalker
The throttle position sensor is connected to the throttle shaft on the throttle body. It sends throttle valve angle information to the PCM. The PCM uses this information to determine how much fuel the engine needs. The TPS is really just a simple potentiometer with one end connected to 5 volts from the PCM and the other to ground. A third wire is connected to the PCM. As you move the accelerator pedal with your foot, the output of the TPS changes. At a closed throttle position, the output of the TPS is low, about a half a volt. As the throttle valve opens, the output increases so that, at wide open throttle, the output voltage should be above 3.9 volts. Testing can be performed with an electrical meter. Analog meter is best. You are looking for a smooth sweep of voltage throughout the entire throttle band. While slowly opening and closing the throttle, take note to the movement of the voltmeter needle. There should be a direct relationship between the needle motion to the motion of the throttle. If at anytime the needle moves abruptly or inconsistently with the movement of the throttle, the TPS is bad

You should have 5 volts going into the TPS. At idle, TPS output voltage must be greater than 200 millivolts. At wide open throttle (WOT), TPS output voltage must be less than 4.8 volts.. The best is to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5 volts. One of the other wires should show .26V (or so). The other wire will be the ground and should show no voltage. Move the throttle and look for smooth meter response up to the 4.49 at WOT.

Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS.

The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture and vibration leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following: -

NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics! It should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected!

• Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting".
• High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction with a slow engine return to idle speed symptom.
• Slow engine return to idle: A failing TPS can report the minimum throttle position values incorrectly which can stop the engine entering idle mode when the throttle is closed. Normally when the throttle is closed the engine fuel injectors will be deactivated until a defined engine RPM speed is reached and the engine brought smoothly to idle speed. When failing a TPS will not report the throttle closed and fueling will continue causing the engine to return to idle very slowly.
• Engine Hesitation on Throttle Application: The TPS is also used by the ECU to determine if the driver has applied the throttle quicker than the Manifold Air Pressure sensor can read. The fueling is adjusted acordingly to cope with the sudden increase in air volume, however a faulty sensor can cause the ECU to ignore this data and the engine will "hesitate" when applying the throttle. In extreme cases with the engine at idle, a sudden application of full throttle can stall the engine.
• Engine Misfire: A fault TPS can report values outside the deined acceptable range causing the ECU to incorrectly fuel the engine. This is noticable as a slight misfire and can trigger the misfire detection software and/or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on the dashboard. Extreme cases can cause excessing misfires resulting in one or more cylinders being shut down to prevent engine and catalytic converter damage.
And adjusting the TV cable: https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/free-quick-fix-41821/
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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:33 PM
  #3  
belvedere's Avatar
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+1 for continuing to change the ATF. BTW, what kind of ATF are you using?
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Old Oct 15, 2013 | 09:59 PM
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xjsnake's Avatar
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Chances are you have a glut of old trans fluid that's causing the occasional rough shifts. Once you get the fluid nice and pink that old crap should dilute out or be drained out completely and you should be good to go.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 12:40 AM
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Radi's Avatar
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Originally Posted by belvedere
BTW, what kind of ATF are you using?
^^ If you are using what the dealer recommends, it's probably the wrong fluid.

Might check the TV cable adjustment too, it has a direct effect on line pressure. That probably isn't the issue, sounds more like you have solenoids that are sticky and/or some sludge or crap occasionally going where it shouldn't, but it's quick and free to rule out. TPS too, as mentioned.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:34 PM
  #6  
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In my experiance the fluid can only be burnt and turn black because something it wrong with the transmission. I would probably be looking for a good used transmission or someone to rebuild this one. What ever caused the fluid to burn will probably continue and get worse. There is a differance between old brown fluid and black smelly burnt fluid.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:40 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by nitroxsteve
In my experiance the fluid can only be burnt and turn black because something it wrong with the transmission. I would probably be looking for a good used transmission or someone to rebuild this one. What ever caused the fluid to burn will probably continue and get worse. There is a differance between old brown fluid and black smelly burnt fluid.
Fluid turns dark and smells burnt from being overheated. Any idiot can do that with the puny transmission coolers on these things from the factory. Just try towing something up a hill in overdrive.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by salad
Fluid turns dark and smells burnt from being overheated. Any idiot can do that with the puny transmission coolers on these things from the factory. Just try towing something up a hill in overdrive.
Yep and then you also destroy the overdrive clutch and changing the fluid wont put the lining back on the disk or un-warp the disk.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 08:57 PM
  #9  
salad's Avatar
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Originally Posted by nitroxsteve
Yep and then you also destroy the overdrive clutch and changing the fluid wont put the lining back on the disk or un-warp the disk.
That's a pretty big leap. Sure, if you burn the fluid off in one hour, the tranny's screwed. But over time is a different story. A lot of these things out there have never had their fluid changed since they rolled off the lot.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 09:06 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by salad
That's a pretty big leap. Sure, if you burn the fluid off in one hour, the tranny's screwed. But over time is a different story. A lot of these things out there have never had their fluid changed since they rolled off the lot.
Maybe so, but thats what I have experienced.
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Old Oct 16, 2013 | 09:15 PM
  #11  
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Make sure you're using Dex/Merc and not ATF+4 fluid for your drain and fills.
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