1988 xj starts then quits

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Mar 17, 2012 | 05:40 PM
  #91  
Quote: Turns out the relays were not in the order my manual showed, What I thought was the latch relay was actually the fuel pump relay, latch relay tested out fine. The problem is in the fuel pump relay circuit, none of the wiring diagrams I found matched what I have on my Jeep. It doesn't look like its been messed with but here's what I found. On fuel pump relay connector, terminal 30-out to fuel pump/injector feed, terminal 86-switched power from ignition, terminal 85- ground to ecu, terminal 87- feed from starter relay, terminal 87A- dead at all times. So what seems to be happening is during start up the feed from the starter relay (87) energizes the fuel pump/injector feed (30), then when I let off the key it cuts the power and stalls. I was only able to remedy this by running switched power to terminal 87A to keep the fuel pump running after start up and shut off with the ignition switch. I don't know if this is how it is supposed to work, it really doesn't make sense to me but it works that way and I'm really getting tired of messing with this thing instead of driving it. I do wish I'd had another one to look at to see if those wires have been altered from stock because I couldn't find any diagram to reflect what I see on my jeep. Thanks for the help, Rob
well ya got a kill switch outa the deal any way
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Mar 17, 2012 | 05:42 PM
  #92  
My factory wiring diagram shows this:

Ign switch powers 86 which then grounds through 85 to the ECU. When this happens, inside the relay the battery power from 30 gets pulled over into contact with 87 energizing the injector feed and fuel pump circuit.

How is the ground in the harness from 85 to the ECU?
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Mar 17, 2012 | 06:38 PM
  #93  
It almost sounds as if the fuel pump relay is doing some of the same job that an ASD relay does in a later Jeep. So the computer needs to keep it grounded for everything to work, it seems. So with the relay working and 87 hot there shouldn't be any need for a jumper. ...if I got that straight
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Mar 17, 2012 | 07:06 PM
  #94  
Quote: My factory wiring diagram shows this:

Ign switch powers 86 which then grounds through 85 to the ECU. When this happens, inside the relay the battery power from 30 gets pulled over into contact with 87 energizing the injector feed and fuel pump circuit.

How is the ground in the harness from 85 to the ECU?
I checked that ground and it was grounding the relay, I guess the ecu is supposed to time out and cut the ground to shut off the fuel pump in certain situations ?. I couldn't say if that was fuctioning but it was grounded. I'm thinking of just reconfiguring the terminals the way you described and trash the balast resistor and starter relay feed wire.
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Mar 17, 2012 | 10:13 PM
  #95  
Quote: the computer needs to keep it grounded for everything to work
Your ECU should be grounding it when it receives a signal from the CPS that the engine is running, I'm pretty sure. (as well as the 2 seconds, and when your cranking)

You did try swapping in a different relay? This shows the AC relay up front, a good one to swap since it's easy to see it's working. http://autorepair.about.com/library/images/bl347lib.htm I do realize it seems to be working..

I forget, you did verify that your CPS is putting out around 1/2 volt (directly from it, unplugged, cranking).
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Mar 17, 2012 | 10:29 PM
  #96  
OK, (Duh), I see/remember now. Still, it only takes a minute to check it, wouldn't be the first time a new CPS was weak.

I did see a line in the FSM, "the ECU "energizes", the fuel pump relay..." I assume it meant that it is grounding it to energize it, in cruise mode as well.
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Mar 18, 2012 | 07:18 PM
  #97  
Well, were up and running again!. Rewired it , works great now. I did however develop a high idle (1200rpm) thru the proccess though. Oh well, we'll save that one for another day, at least I'm driving my jeep again
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Mar 18, 2012 | 08:12 PM
  #98  
For the hi idle, is it intermittent can happen any time for no reason runaway type of hi idle, or always hi idle? For the intermittent, try gently cleaning the pintle cone on your IdleAirControl on front of the throttle body, clean with carb solvent and brother in laws toothbrush, gently. For continued idle u could bend the tab on throttle stem on back side of throttle body, just a little, very little, to bring the idle down. So you still have the resistor active in line with the electrical feed back to your fuel pump with your new wiring setup? the resistor reduces voltage (11V vs 13V) back to the fuel pump to assist longevity of the pump motor.
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Mar 18, 2012 | 09:45 PM
  #99  
Quote: For the hi idle, is it intermittent can happen any time for no reason runaway type of hi idle, or always hi idle? For the intermittent, try gently cleaning the pintle cone on your IdleAirControl on front of the throttle body, clean with carb solvent and brother in laws toothbrush, gently. For continued idle u could bend the tab on throttle stem on back side of throttle body, just a little, very little, to bring the idle down. So you still have the resistor active in line with the electrical feed back to your fuel pump with your new wiring setup? the resistor reduces voltage (11V vs 13V) back to the fuel pump to assist longevity of the pump motor.
Actually, the TB butterfly should be set with the set screw you're not supposed to adjust. Just bending the tab can allow the butterfly to bite into the throttle body bore and stick. I can supply instructions on the adjustment needed to bring it back to stock sould someone have screwed with it. Let me know.

The fuel pump voltage was run through the resistor ONLY to reduce fuel pump noise, not to increase the longevity of the pump.
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Mar 19, 2012 | 05:37 AM
  #100  
Quote: Actually, the TB butterfly should be set with teh set screw you're not supposed to adjust. Just bending the tab can allow the butterfly to bite into the throttle body bore and stick. I can supply instructions on the adjustment needed to bring it back to stock sould someone have screwwd with it. Let me know.

The fuel pump voltage was run through the resistor ONLY to reduce fuel pump noise, not to increase the longevity of the pump.
I did bypass the resistor and the pump is alot louder. I might try putting in back in line sometime just to see if it really needs the 12v on start up. I would be greatful for any advice on how to bring the idle back down. It is a constant high idle, I haven't been able to find any vacume leaks and as near as I could tell the idle air motor seems to be working fine. The only way I could bring it down was manually pushing on the throttle body butterfly, as long as I held it closed tighter it would idle down but of course came right back up as soon as I let go.
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Mar 19, 2012 | 06:26 AM
  #101  
Quote: I did bypass the resistor and the pump is alot louder. I might try putting in back in line sometime just to see if it really needs the 12v on start up. I would be greatful for any advice on how to bring the idle back down. It is a constant high idle, I haven't been able to find any vacume leaks and as near as I could tell the idle air motor seems to be working fine. The only way I could bring it down was manually pushing on the throttle body butterfly, as long as I held it closed tighter it would idle down but of course came right back up as soon as I let go.
As for the TB butterfly, there is an adjustment screw with an allen head that touches the tab on the linkage. Somebody, in a fit of wisdom, probably messed with it. Back the screw out until it no longer touches the tab. Then turn the screw in until it just barely makes the butterfly START to move.

The idle should be fine then. Keep in mind that it will be necessary to readjust your TPS after changing the butterfly location.
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Mar 19, 2012 | 05:07 PM
  #102  
Quote: As for the TB butterfly, there is an adjustment screw with an allen head that touches the tab on the linkage. Somebody, in a fit of wisdom, probably messed with it. Back the screw out until it no longer touches the tab. Then turn the screw in until it just barely makes the butterfly START to move.

The idle should be fine then. Keep in mind that it will be necessary to readjust your TPS after changing the butterfly location.
That makes sense to me, one of the things I did was to clean the TB and it was really gummed up. Maybe somebody idle it up over the years to compensate for the grime, I'll give it a try anyway, thanks.
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Mar 19, 2012 | 08:45 PM
  #103  
Quote: That makes sense to me, one of the things I did was to clean the TB and it was really gummed up. Maybe somebody idle it up over the years to compensate for the grime, I'll give it a try anyway, thanks.
I think you're on the right track. Keep us posted.
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