RuffStuff Frame Stiffener Install Hints
03-17-2017, 12:17 AM
#16
::CF Administrator::
I'm going to bump this thread instead of starting a new one to pose a couple questions.
My next big project is frame stiffeners and I'd like to have a good game plan before diving in. This will be my first welding project on the Jeep so some clarification/reinforcement is needed.
A few specific questions regarding install:
1) What products are safe to clean the rails with prior to welding?
I plan to remove the undercoating with a wire wheel/flap disc then sand down to bare metal where it will be welded. I know not to use brake kleen to wipe it down with but what is acceptable? Acetone? Mineral spirits?
2) Weld-through primer. Yay or nay?
I did a bunch of reading and video watching on this topic today. I learned that cheap weld-through primer is garbage. Even the 3M stuff is no good. Some of the more expensive stuff caught my eye though. U-POL 0768 Copper runs about $35 a can (ouch) but does exactly what it should. Doesn't negatively effect the weld and doesn't burn around the puddle. It is supposed to melt around and mix with the puddle to give it anti-corrosion properties.
My thoughts were to prime the entire unibody rail and inside the stiffener with regular self-etching primer then sand down where I'll be welding and cover those areas with the weld-through stuff. Thoughts? Recommendations? Overkill?
3) Any specific instructions on where/how to weld?
I understand to fill in all rosette welds and to stitch weld the openings at the top and along the bottom. My question is more towards the vertical openings and around the ends. Is this a "less is more" situation or is more weld better? Is there anything I shouldn't be doing to avoid creating any high stress points?
My next big project is frame stiffeners and I'd like to have a good game plan before diving in. This will be my first welding project on the Jeep so some clarification/reinforcement is needed.
A few specific questions regarding install:
1) What products are safe to clean the rails with prior to welding?
I plan to remove the undercoating with a wire wheel/flap disc then sand down to bare metal where it will be welded. I know not to use brake kleen to wipe it down with but what is acceptable? Acetone? Mineral spirits?
2) Weld-through primer. Yay or nay?
I did a bunch of reading and video watching on this topic today. I learned that cheap weld-through primer is garbage. Even the 3M stuff is no good. Some of the more expensive stuff caught my eye though. U-POL 0768 Copper runs about $35 a can (ouch) but does exactly what it should. Doesn't negatively effect the weld and doesn't burn around the puddle. It is supposed to melt around and mix with the puddle to give it anti-corrosion properties.
My thoughts were to prime the entire unibody rail and inside the stiffener with regular self-etching primer then sand down where I'll be welding and cover those areas with the weld-through stuff. Thoughts? Recommendations? Overkill?
3) Any specific instructions on where/how to weld?
I understand to fill in all rosette welds and to stitch weld the openings at the top and along the bottom. My question is more towards the vertical openings and around the ends. Is this a "less is more" situation or is more weld better? Is there anything I shouldn't be doing to avoid creating any high stress points?
1. I used acetone. Worked great, flashes off quickly, and doesn't leave residue. Does take a few wipes and a lot of clean rags, though.
2. NAY. You don't need that crap.
3. See the posts above. Pretty much nailed it there. Do weld around the "corners", but don't overkill it. Just enough to hold it in the corners/gaps.
All that said, go check out my build thread, you might have to dig, but there's some good stuff in there. Large C-clamps are your friend. I also mocked up first, marked where all the edges and holes were, and only ground those areas down to bare metal to weld. Which brings me to my next point, and I'll probably get some **** from some guys here about saying this again, but get a needle scaler. It will remove all the crud, and undercoating quick like hell, but leave enough of the paint/primer so you minimize exposed metal, and thereby minimize rust opportunities. I weld/fab for a living, and it is probably my most used and favorite tool.
Any questions post 'em up.
03-17-2017, 10:06 AM
#17
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You need this for undercoating removal, works absolutely awesome!
http://www.harborfreight.com/compact...ler-96997.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/compact...ler-96997.html
03-17-2017, 10:13 AM
#18
::CF Administrator::
I don't recommend the HF one. One of "those" HF tools. Bought one from them, crapped out during first use. Took it back. Replacement was toast on the second use. Got one from Cornwell, and haven't looked back. Beat on that thing daily, still going strong.
03-17-2017, 10:14 AM
#19
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subbed for information. I am not a fabricator so take what I say lighty,
what I have read is "prep is key" so that is what I am going to be spending most of my time on.
I don't see a reason to paint between the stiffeners and the unibody. am I wrong?
I plan to paint it all after the welding is completed.
I do have a 240v harbor freight welder but I don't feel comfortable enough to weld all that, so I have a friend saying he will weld.
I am looking to do front, mids, and rear sections.
what I have read is "prep is key" so that is what I am going to be spending most of my time on.
I don't see a reason to paint between the stiffeners and the unibody. am I wrong?
I plan to paint it all after the welding is completed.
I do have a 240v harbor freight welder but I don't feel comfortable enough to weld all that, so I have a friend saying he will weld.
I am looking to do front, mids, and rear sections.
03-17-2017, 11:13 AM
#20
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Year: 1999
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Engine: 4.0 L
I'd never seen a needle scaler before but after looking into them I'll definitely pick one up.
I see you didn't weld the vertical seams in your mids. Any particular reason why?
You need this for undercoating removal, works absolutely awesome!
http://www.harborfreight.com/compact...ler-96997.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/compact...ler-96997.html
Hate to say it but I'll be picking up a HF one. There's a store right down the road from me. The price is right. If its stupid and it works then it ain't stupid, right?
I like the idea of coating between the stiffeners and unibody. They're not sealed so moisture will inevitably get in there and start to rust. Its amazing what one winter will do up here. The problem there is that it will still rust around the welds because normal primer will burn off around the puddle. That's why I asked about the weld-through. I guess its not a huge deal because there is plenty of material in there to rust away before it causes any problems.
03-17-2017, 11:23 AM
#21
::CF Administrator::
As far as the needle scaler goes, you might get lucky, to me it's just one of those hit-or-miss HF tools. As stated, I use mine daily, so I need something that works.
03-17-2017, 02:05 PM
#22
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Year: 93 2 door
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prep is key to an extent. just get it to bare metal and burn. I never messed with acetone, it's not like you're putting a show room paint job on the thing afterward.
paint is tricky, because you don't want to breath a lot of galv fumes but you also don't want rust. The two options are weld primer, or seal the frame rail completely after welding so there are no cracks for moisture to seep into. I chose to mock up the frame plates, sharpie on some lines for where I wanted to weld, then only cleaned off those particular spots for welding and hoped for the best.
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