Modified XJ Cherokee Tech XJ (84-01)
All modified tech questions. If it modifies your XJ beyond stock parts ask it here.
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

Flowmasters question

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 09:43 AM
  #16  
rdlyn13000's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Model: Cherokee
Default

Originally Posted by Cherokeewaterfowler
I have a 44 on my Cherokee with 2.5" piping from a brand new STOCK cat back and it sounds real good. But I also have the Spectre Cowl intake as well... that makes it sound dirty!

Makes it sound dirty? Lol... Is that a good or bad thing? Haha
Reply
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 01:11 PM
  #17  
ThatAintStock00's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, SC
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Default

Originally Posted by 94JeepCherokeeMan
A four stroke engine does not require any backpressure. Any backpressure lessens performance.
Can I see proof of that concept?

backpressure improves cylinder filling of the air/fuel mixture...if you lower back pressure the air/fuel charge does not fill the combustion chamber as well, but simply flows through, resulting in less power. It's like filling a bucket with water....if the bucket has a huge hole in it, it takes longer to fill it. Back pressure is like a wall in the exhaust port that the air/fuel mixture hits when entering the combustion chamber so it fills up more....resulting in more complete filling and more power on detonation. There are other important considerations regarding back pressure, especially for racing engines, but you get the idea. And we won't even touch the concept of pipe size and it's effect on exhaust velocity.....


Point is, DO NOT remove your cat, it is ILLEGAL. That should be enough. Then it negatively affects your engine, most likely.

I run a flowmaster 50, its a little quieter and much deeper/mellow. If i had to choose, the 44 does have a much cleaner sound than the 40. The 40s sound metallic and hollow.
Reply
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 01:45 PM
  #18  
94JeepCherokeeMan's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 1
From: Southern Idaho
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L/242 CID I-6 High Output MFI
Default

Originally Posted by ThatAintStock00
Can I see proof of that concept?

backpressure improves cylinder filling of the air/fuel mixture...if you lower back pressure the air/fuel charge does not fill the combustion chamber as well, but simply flows through, resulting in less power. It's like filling a bucket with water....if the bucket has a huge hole in it, it takes longer to fill it. Back pressure is like a wall in the exhaust port that the air/fuel mixture hits when entering the combustion chamber so it fills up more....resulting in more complete filling and more power on detonation. There are other important considerations regarding back pressure, especially for racing engines, but you get the idea. And we won't even touch the concept of pipe size and it's effect on exhaust velocity.....
Your logic is a bit... Flawed on this concept. What you want is NEGATIVE pressure, i.e., vacuum, to help fill the cylinder. The valve acts as a wall, not the backpressure. Valves in a 4-stroke engine have springs to close the cylinder, and do NOT rely on backpressure. More backpressure in a properly tuned engine DECREASES HORSEPOWER AND TORQUE.

http://www.veryuseful.com/mustang/te...Scavenging.pdf

Backpressure requirement is a very old, often logically flawed concept. Freer exhaust flow, up to a certain point, increases power out of an engine. Each exhaust pulse needs to be able to flow to the end of the low-pressure pipe (opening at tailpipe) without expanding too much in the exhaust pipe.
Reply
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 08:52 PM
  #19  
ThatAintStock00's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, SC
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Default

I believe we are explaining two different concepts. I still don't see proof, just a curve. I lost a lot in a house fire, but I may still have the dyno sheets for my ranger's old V6. I lost horsepower AND torque when we tested open headers. It was a significant amount better (+6hp IIRC) with the back pressure of the exhaust to create the scavenging effect you describe in a properly designed exhaust system (stepped down pipe/minimal smooth bends)

We should start another thread instead of hijacking this one if we continue.
Reply
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 09:09 PM
  #20  
Demonoid369's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 0
From: salem, OR
Year: 1997
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Default

Look at top fuel dragsters, they have nothing to cause back pressure and they run freaking amazing and hard. Back pressure isn't what does a engine good, but exhaust tubing does, just like what the guy said about creating a vacuum. You want suction to pull the exhaust out and get less scavenging. Back pressure is just dumb
Reply
Old Jul 19, 2013 | 10:55 PM
  #21  
94JeepCherokeeMan's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 1
From: Southern Idaho
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L/242 CID I-6 High Output MFI
Default

Originally Posted by ThatAintStock00
I believe we are explaining two different concepts. I still don't see proof, just a curve. I lost a lot in a house fire, but I may still have the dyno sheets for my ranger's old V6. I lost horsepower AND torque when we tested open headers. It was a significant amount better (+6hp IIRC) with the back pressure of the exhaust to create the scavenging effect you describe in a properly designed exhaust system (stepped down pipe/minimal smooth bends)

We should start another thread instead of hijacking this one if we continue.
I would venture that your engine was either tuned incorrectly or the headers were not engineered correctly for that V6.
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 12:18 AM
  #22  
RubberSideUp's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 600
Likes: 0
Model: Cherokee
Default

Check out the Cherry Bomb Xtreme:
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 11:49 AM
  #23  
torque062's Avatar
Seasoned Member
 
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 420
Likes: 1
From: Yuma
Year: 1993
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0, APN header & 2.5" exhaust
Default

Originally Posted by 94JeepCherokeeMan
I would venture that your engine was either tuned incorrectly or the headers were not engineered correctly for that V6.
I would agree as I think every dyno run I've ever seen usually makes those peak numbers on the open header pull.
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 01:52 PM
  #24  
BKohs's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,273
Likes: 0
From: Alpharetta, GA
Default

Ok let's settle this... pull your exhaust off and tell us how it runs..... I can tell you it will run like crap and have a lot less power. Everything you are talking about pertains to high powered and propperly tuned engines. Not the tractor motor that comes in the XJ. When you buy an after market exhaust that says it frees up the exhaust flow basically all it is doing is removing the parts of the exhaust that limmit power in order to keep it quiet. So yes I will agree too much back pressure will lower over all performance (like the back pressure caused by the sound dampening parts of the factory exhaust), but saying a 4 stroke engine doesn't need back pressure is not correct.
back on topic though....
the 44 sounds great on the Jeep I6. I had that and a high flow cat on my ZJ and got tons of compliments on the sound. It's not going to sound like the rumble of a V8, but it's a nice deep and smooth sound. quick note though, dont expect any major performance gains from it. if your exhaust is clogged up or has a bad leak at the moment, you'll notice an actuall difference after the install, but if your exhaust is fine, you might only gain about 3 to 5 hp and maybe if you are lucky 5 to 6 ft/lbs. It will sound much nicer though and that will put a smile on your face.
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 02:10 PM
  #25  
Cherokeewaterfowler's Avatar
Junior Member
 
Joined: Apr 2013
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: SE PA
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Default

Originally Posted by rdlyn13000
Makes it sound dirty? Lol... Is that a good or bad thing? Haha
Its a good thing... il post a vid then maybe...
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 03:00 PM
  #26  
ThatAintStock00's Avatar
Member
 
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
From: Columbia, SC
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L
Default

Originally Posted by torque062
I would agree as I think every dyno run I've ever seen usually makes those peak numbers on the open header pull.
I will inform Ford that they used an incorrect design. The 2.9L had a tendency to float the valves under high rpm pulls. Adding the exhaust back provided the resistance needed to stabilize the mixture in the combustion chamber and settle out the valves Seeing as neither my 2.9L or 4.0L are designed with high rpm screaming performance in mind, flow for the regular guy will be just fine with a new cat, muffler and properly stepped pipe.

With an XJ, it's all about the sound. That's what we're going for.
Reply
Old Jul 20, 2013 | 04:16 PM
  #27  
94JeepCherokeeMan's Avatar
CF Veteran
 
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 1,023
Likes: 1
From: Southern Idaho
Year: 1994
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 L/242 CID I-6 High Output MFI
Default

Originally Posted by BKohs
Ok let's settle this... pull your exhaust off and tell us how it runs..... I can tell you it will run like crap and have a lot less power. Everything you are talking about pertains to high powered and propperly tuned engines. Not the tractor motor that comes in the XJ. When you buy an after market exhaust that says it frees up the exhaust flow basically all it is doing is removing the parts of the exhaust that limmit power in order to keep it quiet. So yes I will agree too much back pressure will lower over all performance (like the back pressure caused by the sound dampening parts of the factory exhaust), but saying a 4 stroke engine doesn't need back pressure is not correct.
back on topic though....
the 44 sounds great on the Jeep I6. I had that and a high flow cat on my ZJ and got tons of compliments on the sound. It's not going to sound like the rumble of a V8, but it's a nice deep and smooth sound. quick note though, dont expect any major performance gains from it. if your exhaust is clogged up or has a bad leak at the moment, you'll notice an actuall difference after the install, but if your exhaust is fine, you might only gain about 3 to 5 hp and maybe if you are lucky 5 to 6 ft/lbs. It will sound much nicer though and that will put a smile on your face.
Yes, it would run like crap, because it needs the O2 sensor to calibrate air/fuel ratio. The Chrysler L6 is not a tractor motor. It traces its heritage to such, but the 242 is a light-duty passenger car engine. Please explain to me why it needs backpressure. My engine is properly tuned, and engines that have little to no backpressure run with more power than one that does have backpressure.

http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscella...austtheory.htm

Last edited by 94JeepCherokeeMan; Jul 20, 2013 at 04:22 PM.
Reply
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Kydude7
Stock Grand Cherokee Tech. All ZJ/WJ/WK Non-modified/stock questions go here!
7
Sep 20, 2015 06:35 AM
codykrr
Modified XJ Cherokee Tech
9
Sep 18, 2015 01:27 PM
Mmll52
Modified XJ Cherokee Tech
8
Sep 17, 2015 05:11 PM
mach3lude
Modified XJ Cherokee Tech
17
Sep 10, 2015 02:34 PM

Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:41 AM.