Dyno Results, 4.6 Super-Stroker
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CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
BOOM
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CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,575
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
No. It's an OEM cam grind. Hopefully the rods from Chad will be fine with it. He said they should be if it's an OE cam.
"Guaranteed performance from a quality proven manufacturer. Enginetech camshafts are manufactured in the U.S. at OE facilities using strict SPC data to ensure a quality product every time. Metallurgy testing is performed throughout the manufacturing process from casting to finish grinding and induction hardening."
They also don't sell directly to individual customers. They only sell to distributors that have an account with them. That's some professional grade business'ery. Maybe the lobes will be wide.
"Guaranteed performance from a quality proven manufacturer. Enginetech camshafts are manufactured in the U.S. at OE facilities using strict SPC data to ensure a quality product every time. Metallurgy testing is performed throughout the manufacturing process from casting to finish grinding and induction hardening."
They also don't sell directly to individual customers. They only sell to distributors that have an account with them. That's some professional grade business'ery. Maybe the lobes will be wide.
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,575
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
Just doing some searching on cam lobe widths. It looks like the pictures you got for lobe comparison came from this original post in 2007 from a Crane cam Marty:
Just doing some searching on cam lobe widths:
"That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe the quality of the metal used to cast the blanks has gone down the tubes in recent years. I've been hearing about Crane cam failures for at least the past 3 years if not longer, and that was before the oils were reformulated with lower ZDDP levels."
"Out of curiosity, I removed the camshaft from the AMC 4.2 that furnished my 12 weight crankshaft. Casting number on this camshaft is 3216565 (crank casting is 3214723). The lobe width is .525, distributor gear width is .570, the motor has over 160k miles on it, and was running well when removed. Cam shows the same wear pattern as the stock 4.0 cam in your photo, indicating normal wear and lifter rotation. This origonal camshaft is still usable. I have to think the lobe width is not in its self the issue.
-John"
"Could not agree more about the steel. That was part of the previous link I posted. I also see heat treat issues in the surface structure. Couple those with changing lubrication packages and you have a triad that will all to often lead to this type of failure.
-John"
"A cam is ground so that the lifter spins as it climbs the lobe. Looks like the OE is ground correct and the aftermarket is ground flat and not letting the lifter spin."
"That's exactly what I was thinking. Maybe the quality of the metal used to cast the blanks has gone down the tubes in recent years. I've been hearing about Crane cam failures for at least the past 3 years if not longer, and that was before the oils were reformulated with lower ZDDP levels."
"Out of curiosity, I removed the camshaft from the AMC 4.2 that furnished my 12 weight crankshaft. Casting number on this camshaft is 3216565 (crank casting is 3214723). The lobe width is .525, distributor gear width is .570, the motor has over 160k miles on it, and was running well when removed. Cam shows the same wear pattern as the stock 4.0 cam in your photo, indicating normal wear and lifter rotation. This origonal camshaft is still usable. I have to think the lobe width is not in its self the issue.
-John"
"Could not agree more about the steel. That was part of the previous link I posted. I also see heat treat issues in the surface structure. Couple those with changing lubrication packages and you have a triad that will all to often lead to this type of failure.
-John"
"A cam is ground so that the lifter spins as it climbs the lobe. Looks like the OE is ground correct and the aftermarket is ground flat and not letting the lifter spin."
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CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
The EngineTech OEM camshaft from RockAuto.com does indeed have the thicker lobes.
On my way to the shop, since they had only gotten as far as taking off the timing cover, I decided I would have them leave the MOPAR in there and I would run it until I have problems, then replace it with the EngineTech on my own.
Golen has had numerous reliable stroker builds and they used the dowel cams from Comp-Cams with the skinnier lobes. I think the fact that they give a users manual with the stroker on precise procedures and which oils to use is what gives the engine longevity given the things I have learned about the various reasons why the after-market camshafts tend to fail.
I'm still having them change out that HV oil pump with an OEM engine-tech though. After that all there is to do is verify the Meth. is operating properly and dyno it before being done.
On my way to the shop, since they had only gotten as far as taking off the timing cover, I decided I would have them leave the MOPAR in there and I would run it until I have problems, then replace it with the EngineTech on my own.
Golen has had numerous reliable stroker builds and they used the dowel cams from Comp-Cams with the skinnier lobes. I think the fact that they give a users manual with the stroker on precise procedures and which oils to use is what gives the engine longevity given the things I have learned about the various reasons why the after-market camshafts tend to fail.
I'm still having them change out that HV oil pump with an OEM engine-tech though. After that all there is to do is verify the Meth. is operating properly and dyno it before being done.
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CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
Been having starting issues, I'm sure are related to CPS, after the oil pump install. Should be rectified today.
I've been reading about all factors considered concerning AFR under boost. I'm thinking about running 13.3~ since I'm using 4-5 PSI max while using water/meth injection in tandem with 180 degree thermostat and pending electrical fan installation to keep the engine temp at 185. Thoughts?
What AFR do you run under how much boost Marty?
I've been reading about all factors considered concerning AFR under boost. I'm thinking about running 13.3~ since I'm using 4-5 PSI max while using water/meth injection in tandem with 180 degree thermostat and pending electrical fan installation to keep the engine temp at 185. Thoughts?
What AFR do you run under how much boost Marty?
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Joined: Apr 2010
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From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
It seems like 12.5 is the general recommended amount for all boosted applications as a safe point, to include turbo's running upwards of 20-30 PSI. It would seem to me, and based off of what I've been reading, that with me running only 5 PSI at the upper end, and therefore only 2-3 at cruising, that rule would be highly overkill for my application and just be more wasted fuel.
The engine is supposed to run hotter with leaner temperatures, and the heat is what kills components (namely pistons and valves but I have forged pistons and stainless steel valves). I have maximum quench to resist detonation, methanol injection, no ignition advancement, 180 degree thermostat and soon to have the electric fans. I don't see how 12.5 AFR used on a 20 PSI applications that is recirculation 600+ degree exhaust fumes that requires 12.5 AFR is going to have to be the exact same to me.
I'm going to start at 13 and monitor temperatures without the electric fans and see how it affects engine temperatures.
The engine is supposed to run hotter with leaner temperatures, and the heat is what kills components (namely pistons and valves but I have forged pistons and stainless steel valves). I have maximum quench to resist detonation, methanol injection, no ignition advancement, 180 degree thermostat and soon to have the electric fans. I don't see how 12.5 AFR used on a 20 PSI applications that is recirculation 600+ degree exhaust fumes that requires 12.5 AFR is going to have to be the exact same to me.
I'm going to start at 13 and monitor temperatures without the electric fans and see how it affects engine temperatures.
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From: PA KOTUFU!
Year: 1998
Engine: 4.0L 162,000
I would rather run on the slightly rich side (12.5 to 12.1 at full boost) and lose a few HP and be safe, rather than run lean (13:1) and risk a bad load of fuel and detonate and blow an engine. I haven't blown an engine yet and don't want to and don't like doing or paying for a new engine.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
Seasoned Member
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 420
Likes: 1
From: Yuma
Year: 1993
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0, APN header & 2.5" exhaust
I would rather run on the slightly rich side (12.5 to 12.1 at full boost) and lose a few HP and be safe, rather than run lean (13:1) and risk a bad load of fuel and detonate and blow an engine. I haven't blown an engine yet and don't want to and don't like doing or paying for a new engine.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 179
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Model: Cherokee
I wouldn't even shoot for 12.5:1 unless i had a bang-on tune with a full standalone EMS. And even then... not worth the risk for a street car where you expect some longevity. Especially not on cars running 20-30psi. That's just asking for a ventilated block.
I stay in the 11.8-12.1:1 area on my built motor turbo Miata. The MX6 without full control sits in the 11.2-11.5:1 area.
I stay in the 11.8-12.1:1 area on my built motor turbo Miata. The MX6 without full control sits in the 11.2-11.5:1 area.
Thread Starter
CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 4
From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam
I would rather run on the slightly rich side (12.5 to 12.1 at full boost) and lose a few HP and be safe, rather than run lean (13:1) and risk a bad load of fuel and detonate and blow an engine. I haven't blown an engine yet and don't want to and don't like doing or paying for a new engine.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
Yes it will 'burn more fuel'. Actually very little over the course of a tankful of gas. Surprisingly very little time is spent in boost.
To run 13:1 under boost, your tune has to be spot on with no glitches like bad spark plug, bad wires, bad load of fuel, summer gas with more ethanol, run out of meth or pump fails or lines plug, etc.
CF Veteran
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,777
Likes: 22
From: PA KOTUFU!
Year: 1998
Engine: 4.0L 162,000
Tuning for bigger injectors and bigger injectors with boost is a whole new education.
Doing it with an ECU that is not easily programmable (Jeep) and using a piggy back device gets tricky.
Keeping it safe is the highest priority.
Doing it with an ECU that is not easily programmable (Jeep) and using a piggy back device gets tricky.
Keeping it safe is the highest priority.
Thread Starter
CF Veteran
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 1,575
Likes: 4
From: Florida
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: 4.6 Re-Built Golen, 68-200-4 Comp Cam