Ahhhh. That would explain the lack of proper AFR until 3000 + RPM despite connecting it to the boost lines. I got good AFR at startup for less than half a minute before it went back to trying to maintain 14.7.

I know all the cable lengths are different, and the post-cats have a black connector that is keyed differently than the pre-cat so You can't mix them up.

They're all brand new NTK's from NAPA so I'm not inclined to replace them.

I had a squeal from the serpentine belt area and got sidetracked. I have to have the wheel from the fan pulley pressed out and a new one I picked up at a junkyard pressed in before I can do anything else.

SplitSecond must have had Friday off. Can you email me a copy of the base tune if you have it? I'm at Httpwayne@yahoo.com.

 

I'll check with my son later today and see if he has a copy of the SS tune file in his computer.

To much guessing about what is going on. What is going on with the AFR. Before you can tune it, you need to know if and when you are going into open loop. What are you using to watch this? You really need that ELM 327 and Torque PRO that I have found to be the easiest way to find closed/open loop status. Anything else is just guessing.

 

Asked my son and we don't have a stock tune on the laptop. Modified tune tables only.
If you get a tune emailed to you by SS, you could forward it to me to look over.

 

I've been unpacking and picking away at other small things on the jeep recently. I decided to re-run some larger vacuum lines for the meth injection fearing that the uber-small T's were causing extremely low readings of PSI.

When I floor at idle while in park I've gotten it to read as high as 2.5~ PSI. After putting in the new vacuum lines it only went as high as 1 (but the engine was hot this time vs. being completely cold).

I figured there was something wrong with those readings so I hooked up a vacuum/pressure gauge. When I open the throttle all the way it will jump up to 1 PSI then suck right down to vacuum in the normal engine range which seems to indicate the amount of boost really is low. I think this is the reason why it only goes into open loop at 3000 + RPM's, even then the AFR, and boost gauge from the meth kit, only registers it for a SplitSecond (no pun intended) then drops off completely (which is just what the mechanical gauge I have is doing).

I've securely tied all the vacuum lines down and I'm positive there is no leak. When I disconnect the meth lines it's done right at the engine less than 2 feet from the manifold.

Was your level of boost this low? It seems I have more power from the supercharger but the drastically reduce gas mileage (7~mpg) would indicate there is almost as much parasitic loss for the amount of power that is produced.


Thoughts?

 

You can't see boost by reving it in park. What you are seeing is exactly right and correct. Only way to know is to go for a drive and give it a try. Don't floor it. You can modulate it with your right foot. Go for a drive, best on a slight uphill and start leaning into it, 0 boost then 1-2 pounds, then 0, then 2-3pounds. If no detonation and badness, give it a bit more with your right foot. Only have premium in the tank or add octane booster. If all passes, give it a go at WOT pedal to the metal for 2-3 seconds and then let off and go home. With your big smile check and double check everything. Pull the spark plugs if you want to. Did you take out that ECU tune and put the stock ECU back to stock. Superchips or whatever it was.

The larger vacuum lines- How much bigger? Not 1/4" or larger?

What makes you think you are only getting 8mpg?

 

I've been monitoring the Snow Perf. methanol injection gauge for boost while driving as well and the results are the same. Up to 1 PSI for a fraction of a second then nothing.

I took a 20 mile round trip to a nearby lake for a run this morning after filling it up and it's almost on the second line after the E line already. Granted it has an extra 800~lbs of weight on it, but there wasn't much stop and go either.

So my methanol injection works for long enough to pump out 1 spray at 15% (that's what I have 1 PSI set to) at WOT. Something can't be right somewhere. If the pressure gauge is accurate with the snow performance gauge at idle, then the Snow gauge must be accurate while driving. .9 psi for a quarter of a second when I floor it doesn't seem right; and if it is then I need a smaller pulley.

 

Does the bypass valve close when you blip the throttle, then open again?
Almost sounds like the bypass valve is staying open, but the default(without vacuum) is to close.
1 pound of boost at WOT. That doesn't seem right. Did you see more boost before?
Does it feel faster?
I would pull the fuse on the meth at only 1 pound boost, and see what happens.

 

I'm not exactly sure if I tested it the right way. I disconnected the BP valve and hooked up the gauge and received the same results I received from the previous boost pressure test on the other manifold line feeding the SS & meth injection.

I left it disconnected and hooked the gauge up to the other boost line and received almost the same results but it ran rich as crap + horrible at idle and throttle. I reconnected the BP valve and tested again with the rich results (probably because MAP wasn't connected).

I've been reading about the causes of reduced boost. The belt isn't slipping and regardless of BP valve the results are the same.

I have the 6=8 Clifford performance headers which are supposed to increase low end torque 22% from factory because of their design. I also have the base retarded timing from the SS tune and have upgraded to the 62mm TB since the initial startup and test of it when it was at the speed shop. The speed shop only got 3 PSI pre-62mm throttle body. Is it possible that with the headers, timing, and the golen redesigned head unit for 1999+ models that I just have that much more flow and loss of pressure? The MOPAR increases compression and my DCR is high for a boosted engine so I though that would generate more boost. Maybe I planned it out to be too efficient. Maybe I really do need a slightly smaller pulley.

Where did you get yours from?

I'm going to call golen about the head unit and Sprintex about the SC boost levels with my modifications.

What mods do you have on your Sprintex setup?

EDIT 1:

The bypass valve body has wiggle in it. I was on the phone with Sprintex and they want me to remove it and see if the arm has movement as well.
On a side note Golen is installing a Sprintex into a CJ 4.2 they have converted to a 4.6 with a custom grind 206/214 cam. They should have it on the dyno by next week.

EDIT 2:

Captain's Log, star-date 12042014: The bypass vacuum port was hooked to boost off the manifold. Attempting fix-actions now.

 

The bypass valve 'defaults' to the closed position when the port is open to atmosphere. With vacuum, it opens and air bypasses the SC. We plumbed ours to the intake manifold so that it sees vacuum and boost. We did that because we thought that at higher boost, the boost pressure was pusing on the valve butterfly and opening the valve and bleeding boost. By applying boost to the valve, it helps to keep it closed.

In your case with very low boost, I would simplify the vacuum lines and run the vac line from the bypass valve not to the intake manifold but to the old MAP sensor port on the TB or any other port after the TB and before the SC.

If the MAP sensor is not connected to vacuum at idle, the ECU will go into open loop and idle terribly like it has a drag race cam. The MAP sensor must be connected to the intake manifold and see vacuum and boost.

Why before you had 3 pounds boost and now only 1 pound, I'm not sure. ?Better flowing head, cam, but both of your's are only minimally better/increased over stock.

The smaller pulley is nearly elusive. Sprintex sent me a wrong one that didn't fit. I got a custom made one from way back when they were testing it. Possible 'Pulley Boys' can make one.

Initially we used the 62mm TB and stock sprintex pulley. With the stock 4.0, we saw 5-6 pounds boost. When we wanted more, The biggest improvement I did was to use a F+B 70mm TB and to grind the sprintex TB to SC manifold opening bigger and to open the 'throat' area below the TB. This made a huge difference. These twin screws don't like to be choked off on the inlet side. Sprintex did this to limit boost.


This is just opening the gasket surface and just below. Later we also opened up further down where it necks down. Before like 2 fingers would pass thru, after 3 fingers, if that makes sense. Boost went up.

we went from 5-6 pounds to 11-12 pounds boost with the smaller pulley and bigger 70mm TB and the ported manifold. The was also with 1.7:1 roller rockers and 2.5" exhaust downpipe, cat, muffler and tubing. Both of these should have lowered boost due to 'better' flowing. When we did add the ported big valve head, boost did decrease 1.5-2 pounds due to better flowing.

I doubt the clifford headers, timing, cam and golen head are reducing your boost.

Try removing the air intake elbow off the TB and just run open with no filter. No Dirt Roads. Just for a test to see if this is your restriction and limiting boost. Maybe before at the shop and dyno with 3 pounds boost they had the open TB. I would try it to check. A restricted air intake tract will also cause a restriction to the SC and limit boost. We once had a 3" plug come loose and got stuck in the intake tract and limited boost by over half. Removed the obstruction and back to full boost.

 

If I ran it to the old MAP port, where would I put the map sensor? It blocks off that port when it's bolted. I have it sitting semi-loose so the port isn't being blocked off since I have it running to the manifold now to see boost + vacuum like you recommended. It doesn't seem to matter though because it's still only running open loop at 3000 + RPM's ( I verified it with my Actron OBD-II scanner looking at the live data).

I can only assume that it's factory open loop. The meth kit refuses to see any kind of boost any more. I need to inspect the unit. I forgot I needed to clean off a ground at the pump yesterday because they grounded it to the OEM spare tire bracket which is slightly rusty.

After relocating the bypass valve to vacuum via the brake-booster with a firmly secured T connection I can hear vacuum at the line. I felt and got as close as I could to it to hear if it was leaking but it sounded like it was just a lot of suction from inside the lines. The engine seemed like it was having to relearn the idle so I can only hope that it made a difference.

Regardless of relocating it to vacuum though I completely bypassed the valve beforehand to eliminate the possibility of the diaphragm being the issue and it still operated the same (bouncing up to below 1 PSI before suctioning down to strong vacuum).

I'm wondering if the arm into the valve is a problem. WHen I disconnected it to see if the arm was loose it did have a little wiggle room when pulled out all the way. The arm is the same diameter all the way to the end minus that little notch that's in it. I can't tell if that notch goes in one way only and maybe it's not notched and is leaking there. I would think if it was that I would hear a good whistle. I do hear a small whine but I was attributing that to the SC compression. Maybe it's not fully seated and is leaking there. ? I can't imagine 4-5 lbs of boost emptying out of that small hole without making a god-awful noise that would instantly identify itself.

I'm thinking about just wiring up the SAFC-II unit I have stored away somewhere and setting it to relay WOT at 10% throttle and calling it quits for a while. The AFR display is what bothers me most because I can tell there is more power from the sprintex already. Maybe I need to set the meth injection to run off of EFI vs. boost because it just isn't seeing it. I'll try hooking a hand pump up to it and see how it responds to that.

 

I was just saying that MAP port b/c it is not being used and I didn't know if you had another port available. Un-mount the MAP sensor from there temporarily to be able to get to the port.
With the engine idling, watch your scan gauge, if you pull the line off the MAP sensor and put your finger over the hose end and the MAP is open to ATM, you should see the scanner show open loop and it will start idling very poorly. Reconnect the hose to the MAP sensor and it will go back into closed loop and idle smoothly.

I would just take the Meth out of the equation at the moment. Maybe it is glitching out and causing some issues. IDK but disconnecting it temporarily will isolate it for right now. When you start making over 3 pounds boost yu can re-hook it back up.

You just want the bypass valve to be closed when engine is off, open when idling, and when you blip the throttle- the bypass valve should blip closed and then open again.

 

"I verified it with my Actron OBD-II scanner looking at the live data"

Which scanner do you have? Model? What 'live data are you watching'? Does it say open loop or closed loop?

 

Actron AutoScanner CP9575. There's a read live data option that shows everything the ECU is controlling and making adjustments to live.

Short & Long term fuel trims (for both banks), manifold vacuum in Hg, the front 2 02 sensor voltages, throttle position sensor voltage, IAT, engine temperature, and a slew of others I don't remember off the top of my head.

..oh, and open/closed loop x2. I assume that's in relation to both banks. It says ClsdLoop until right about 3000 RPM's. Then it's OpenLoop. As I ease off the throttle it returns to closed loop around 2800 RPM's.

 

Has the motor been dyno'ed yet? It has been 7 months already... I have been following this thread for a couple months hoping you'd get the motor spinning and tell us what it can do...but I haven't seen anything yet.

Certainly you don't owe me or anybody anything, but I am rooting for you and hope you can get it buttoned up soon to alleviate the curiosity!

 

So just to check if at idle, pull the hose off the MAP sensor and plug the hose with your finger and leave the MAP sensor open, and see if that puts it in open loop. Don't rev it.