Welding thread!!!! - Page 162 - Jeep Cherokee Forum

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Welding thread!!!!

Old 12-27-2017, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by StealthyMcStealth View Post
6 inches!??? Wow. I love my ZJ but I will be upgrading the entire structure one piece at a time. And for the people that say it adds weight... so does a passenger. Or two passengers. I can do a LOT of upgrades for the weight of one 200 pound passenger.
Yup! I don't give a crap about it adding weight. If it means a recovered Jeep versus a totalled Jeep, it's worth it. Not to mention, reinforcing the frame is weight in the right place. Lowers that center of gravity because you're putting more weight at the bottom. There's really no down side.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:37 PM
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quick question guys. my father found an old metal shop closing down and selling their supplies. he bought a gas bottle knowing I would be interested and now i'm looking for some info. i know nothing about bottle but it's about 4 - 4 1/2 feet tall, has a sticker and many numbers stamped on it.

it's an argon bottle filled maybe halfway. let's say I want to use a co2/argon mix, is this an issue or it will be fine? I imagine they need to empty it before filling it again with the proper mix? If it's my own bottle and i'm not renting it, will they swap it for another one or they'll fill this exact one?

And last thing, I once heard it's possible for a gas supplier to simply take away your bottle even if it's your own, something about the bottle not being legal or something. Is there any truth to that? I haven't found any local suppliers yet, i want to get more info before going there.

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Old 01-04-2018, 01:54 PM
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I would say to contact your local gas supplier and ask them these questions. There maybe some that will fill your own tank then others that will swap them.
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Old 01-04-2018, 07:56 PM
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Some poeple say they own a bottle but in reality they just rented it from a supplier. They may have rented it 10years ago but when they take it in to be filled and the supplier sees their name on it and that it's passed it's test date they will take it back. Gas cylinders have tests performed on them to be sure they are "safe" for pressure. A valid test will only last so many years before it needs retesting. how long they last depends on a number of variables, what gas, what cylinder type, how it was tested, etc...

When you hear people say the supplier just took a cylinder from somebody it's generally because of this example:

Mr. Smith wanted an oxy/acetylene cutting setup to use around the farm so he went down to Air Gas (supplier) and bought a good old victor torch kit and a bottle cart. Now when they told him the price of the cylinders he decided it would be more cost effective for him to rent them. Later down the road, Mr. Smith has had a great oxy fuel setup that has served him well for 10 plus years. Unfortunately this summer Mr. Smith passed away and little sally is left with all Grampa Smiths tools. Little sally has no use for Grampa Smiths tools so she puts an add on Craigslist and lists a full great condition oxy fuel setup for $70. Joe sees this add and quickly runs to little Sally's because he thinks he's got a smokin deal. To Joes surprise when he goes to fill his tanks, Air Gas tells him that his tanks are out dated and he doesn't actualy own them and since Air Gas doesn't want the liability of an outdated tank they take the tank back from joe. Now to get new tanks he has to pay for new bottles or rent new ones from Air Gas. Joes pissed cuz he no longer got a smokin deal on his oxy setup so he goes on facebook and spreads his anger towards Air Gas by letting everyone know that they just "stole" his tanks from him. Basically he bought a stolen car and the owner called and wanted it back.

If you truly own a gas cylinder, no company will just take it from you because its outdated. They will tell you it's out dated and if they can't re test it in house they will recommend somewhere to take it. It doesn't cost that much to get a tank tested so I would recommend going to your local supplier and they will tell you if it's a personaly owned tank or if it is rented from somewhere. Good luck!
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TeXJ View Post
I would say to contact your local gas supplier and ask them these questions. There maybe some that will fill your own tank then others that will swap them.
alright cheers

Originally Posted by StuckBuck View Post
Some poeple say they own a bottle but in reality they just rented it from a supplier. They may have rented it 10years ago but when they take it in to be filled and the supplier sees their name on it and that it's passed it's test date they will take it back. Gas cylinders have tests performed on them to be sure they are "safe" for pressure. A valid test will only last so many years before it needs retesting. how long they last depends on a number of variables, what gas, what cylinder type, how it was tested, etc...

When you hear people say the supplier just took a cylinder from somebody it's generally because of this example:

Mr. Smith wanted an oxy/acetylene cutting setup to use around the farm so he went down to Air Gas (supplier) and bought a good old victor torch kit and a bottle cart. Now when they told him the price of the cylinders he decided it would be more cost effective for him to rent them. Later down the road, Mr. Smith has had a great oxy fuel setup that has served him well for 10 plus years. Unfortunately this summer Mr. Smith passed away and little sally is left with all Grampa Smiths tools. Little sally has no use for Grampa Smiths tools so she puts an add on Craigslist and lists a full great condition oxy fuel setup for $70. Joe sees this add and quickly runs to little Sally's because he thinks he's got a smokin deal. To Joes surprise when he goes to fill his tanks, Air Gas tells him that his tanks are out dated and he doesn't actualy own them and since Air Gas doesn't want the liability of an outdated tank they take the tank back from joe. Now to get new tanks he has to pay for new bottles or rent new ones from Air Gas. Joes pissed cuz he no longer got a smokin deal on his oxy setup so he goes on facebook and spreads his anger towards Air Gas by letting everyone know that they just "stole" his tanks from him. Basically he bought a stolen car and the owner called and wanted it back.

If you truly own a gas cylinder, no company will just take it from you because its outdated. They will tell you it's out dated and if they can't re test it in house they will recommend somewhere to take it. It doesn't cost that much to get a tank tested so I would recommend going to your local supplier and they will tell you if it's a personaly owned tank or if it is rented from somewhere. Good luck!
thanks for the in depth explanation. i checked some youtube videos, they seem to say that tanks owned by those companies have the name stamped around the top of the bottle. same goes for the date and how long it's good for. so when I have access to it i'll check all those things and also what the sticker on it says. I only saw the tank during holidays while visting and didn't know about all those things. should've thought about it.

i'm inclined to believe the tank was owned and not rented, it's from a shop that closed down, but i guess it might still be possible. i'll know for sure when I take another look at it. thanks again
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Cane View Post
i'm inclined to believe the tank was owned and not rented, it's from a shop that closed down, but i guess it might still be possible. i'll know for sure when I take another look at it. thanks again
Not necessarily. Most shops around me, including the tire shop i work at, rent their tanks from a local place. If one of us were to close and our stuff auctioned off, you'd be getting a rental tank...I think that tank is a rental.
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Old 01-04-2018, 10:49 PM
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Q size cylinders are only leased/rented. you need a contract in your name to swap one out. they do not just refill them for you. and can only be returned to said company. most welding companies use these.

G sizes cylinders are more common for the average home user. i have a few of these from Linde. i paid a deposit of 200 bux plus the cost of argon/co2 mix of about 80 bux. then whenever i need a refill, i exchange it for the 80 bux and i'm good. no contract, but still have to exchange at Linde.

if you have a Q bottle and need it exchanged, if you know someone with a contract, they may exchange it for you if they feel like doing you a favour, but don't count on it.

at least that's the way it is here in canada, and i'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Q size is about 38 inches tall
G size is about 28 inches tall

Last edited by caged; 01-04-2018 at 10:51 PM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Martlor13 View Post
Not necessarily. Most shops around me, including the tire shop i work at, rent their tanks from a local place. If one of us were to close and our stuff auctioned off, you'd be getting a rental tank...I think that tank is a rental.
yeah I totally understand, I'll know for sure when I take another look at it. hopefully not but if that's the case, live and learn I guess! I'll post an update when I find out.

and the "shop" was actually a pretty big company with a huge warehouse, multiple gas tanks, heavy machinery, tools and much more stuff I wish I could afford to buy. I'm led to believe they'd have their own bottles because their gas supplier would notice when they closed down... and start asking questions where their tanks went.

Originally Posted by caged View Post
Q size cylinders are only leased/rented. you need a contract in your name to swap one out. they do not just refill them for you. and can only be returned to said company. most welding companies use these.

G sizes cylinders are more common for the average home user. i have a few of these from Linde. i paid a deposit of 200 bux plus the cost of argon/co2 mix of about 80 bux. then whenever i need a refill, i exchange it for the 80 bux and i'm good. no contract, but still have to exchange at Linde.

if you have a Q bottle and need it exchanged, if you know someone with a contract, they may exchange it for you if they feel like doing you a favour, but don't count on it.

at least that's the way it is here in canada, and i'm sure it's the same everywhere.

Q size is about 38 inches tall
G size is about 28 inches tall
mine is taller than 38 inches.. I'm 6'3 and I'd say it was reaching my chest.

based on pictures I see online I'd guess it's a 125 cubic feet tank.

i am also in canada, but I've seen different hobby mechanics around me with similar tank sizes, so I really don't know what to believe. let's say the tank is really customer owned and I have no contract, is it still possible to get it inspected by some gas supplier and then always go back to them to swap bottles and only pay the refill cost (and no renting fees)? in an ideal world it's how I see it working out but it might not be that simple.

Last edited by Cane; 01-05-2018 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:59 AM
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Third Canadian comment in a row. We must all be inside to stay out of the cold.

About 30 yrs ago I entered into a contract for my home garage with one of the big suppliers. I got a letter about 6 mo. later advising me that they had moved to a city that is about 40 mi. away and I was to go there for future refills. I called and said "no thanks" please drop by and pick up your tanks. If they had told me before they moved I would have returned the tanks, terminated the contract, asked for a partial refund and an amount that was roughly equal to amount of gas that was in the tanks. I told them ..."you must have known 6 mo. ago that you were moving!" Progressively nastier letters came for about the next year+ and I kept asking when they were coming by. Not once did they pick up the phone. Eventually the letters stopped.

I'm a small user but the tanks eventually needed to be refilled. I took them to another welding supply shop about 5 mi. away. No questions asked. They filled them for me right away and have done so again several times. I've had all 3 recertified by that same shop. They said ... "well I guess they're yours now".

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Old 01-05-2018, 12:22 PM
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Haha yeah it's not the time to stay outside too long these days.

I looked at Air Liquide (blueshield) catalog and there it was. I will get in contact with a couple companies and ask them before bringing them the bottle. Being in Quebec might again screw me because I've read a thread on another forum saying outside of Quebec getting customer owned bottles filled seemed straightforward, but not here. I start to dislike speaking french now!!!


Last edited by Cane; 01-05-2018 at 12:26 PM.
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Old 01-05-2018, 07:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Cane View Post
and the "shop" was actually a pretty big company with a huge warehouse, multiple gas tanks, heavy machinery, tools and much more stuff I wish I could afford to buy. I'm led to believe they'd have their own bottles because their gas supplier would notice when they closed down... and start asking questions where their tanks went.
Last year I worked for a large company, a steam pipe fab shop, and we didn't own a single one of our bottles and we had a lot, like 20+ bottles on site at all times. Just made it easier on the shop guy because Matheson Supply would come on site and swap all our empties. May not be your case but really just take it to a supplier and they will tell you in a couple seconds if it is a rental or not.
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Old 01-05-2018, 10:37 PM
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Originally Posted by StuckBuck View Post
Last year I worked for a large company, a steam pipe fab shop, and we didn't own a single one of our bottles and we had a lot, like 20+ bottles on site at all times. Just made it easier on the shop guy because Matheson Supply would come on site and swap all our empties.
This.

I used to be an RSR for UniFirst and I can tell you from my interactions with Garages, Welding and fab shops, restaurants, and grocery stores, ANYTHING they can have someone else come and do for them without them having to take time out of their day to do themselves, they will do.

The employees' uniforms were rented through us. They bring in the dirties, we bring in the cleans. The floor mats were rented through us... even if they had a printed company logo on them, they didn't own them. Once a week, we'd come in there and swap out a dirty rug to be laundered and replace it with a clean one. Shop rags, clean rags, towels, mop heads, soap dispenser refills, toilet paper, paper towles.... we did ALL of that. Because it kept them from having to do "sidebar" tasks that would have otherwise interfered with productivity.

Ever see those trucks drive by with a 20' long bed full of gas cylinders standing up? They're making their rounds. Picking up empties and dropping off refills. When I worked at Lowe's, same thing. We had racks with propane cylinders for the forklifts. Designated racks for the full cylinders and designated racks for the empties. We never even had to think about it. Cylinder empty? Go put it on the rack and grab a full cylinder. - Now imagine one of the delivery drivers or forklift operators had to load up a truck with empty propane cylinders and drive them all the way to a gas supplier to swap out bottles. So then you have an employee that should be doing something to increase your productivity, performing an unproductive maintenance item.

If the shop is as big as you say it is... hell, even if it was a mom n pop shop (I had several of those on my route), I'd almost guarantee it's a rented bottle....

Originally Posted by StuckBuck View Post
May not be your case but really just take it to a supplier and they will tell you in a couple seconds if it is a rental or not.
...however, in the unlikely event it's not...... this^^
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Old 01-05-2018, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Basslicks View Post
This.

I used to be an RSR for UniFirst and I can tell you from my interactions with Garages, Welding and fab shops, restaurants, and grocery stores, ANYTHING they can have someone else come and do for them without them having to take time out of their day to do themselves, they will do.

The employees' uniforms were rented through us. They bring in the dirties, we bring in the cleans. The floor mats were rented through us... even if they had a printed company logo on them, they didn't own them. Once a week, we'd come in there and swap out a dirty rug to be laundered and replace it with a clean one. Shop rags, clean rags, towels, mop heads, soap dispenser refills, toilet paper, paper towles.... we did ALL of that. Because it kept them from having to do "sidebar" tasks that would have otherwise interfered with productivity.

Ever see those trucks drive by with a 20' long bed full of gas cylinders standing up? They're making their rounds. Picking up empties and dropping off refills. When I worked at Lowe's, same thing. We had racks with propane cylinders for the forklifts. Designated racks for the full cylinders and designated racks for the empties. We never even had to think about it. Cylinder empty? Go put it on the rack and grab a full cylinder. - Now imagine one of the delivery drivers or forklift operators had to load up a truck with empty propane cylinders and drive them all the way to a gas supplier to swap out bottles. So then you have an employee that should be doing something to increase your productivity, performing an unproductive maintenance item.

If the shop is as big as you say it is... hell, even if it was a mom n pop shop (I had several of those on my route), I'd almost guarantee it's a rented bottle....
The uniforst man is my dude!!..cooler then hell. where I work it is a mom an pop store and we have those done for us as well. That's a damn great comparison man haha
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Old 01-06-2018, 12:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Martlor13 View Post
The uniforst man is my dude!!..cooler then hell. where I work it is a mom an pop store and we have those done for us as well. That's a damn great comparison man haha
Yeah buddy! I had a good rapport with all of my customers. Bummed everyone out when I left lol.... even got a few job offers.

I liked the gig, but I'm glad I left when I did. I left there for my current job which, right after starting here the economy took a crap and they discontinued my route. Split up all the stops between all the other routes to keep those RSRs on the road. So I probably would've ended up getting laid off anyway 'cause I was the low man on the totem pole (union job).
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:36 PM
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Looking for some welding classes around me. Looking to community colleges. I work full time so I need to find like weekends and nights. Any thoughts for other businesses that would mentor me or that I could like intern at? Metal fab shops?
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