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There it is! lol I looked for quite awhile for one of those. I was probably using the wrong search terms. Thanks man... In the next few days I might go redo and replace the one I posted.
From what i've seen in XJs that have rolled over, the A pillar really comes down. It seems the rest of the supports seem to hold better.
But I'm a wuss and just wheel to have fun and not see if i can roll my baby
The whole thing would have smashed flat if it hadn't accidently folded the rain gutter over the top of the doors to capture them. The doors helped keep the whole thing from smashing flat, but if the gutter had not folded over them...
Just want to share that even when you are going slow and being careful things can jump out at you. That's what recently happened to me and when I found out how scary soft these things really are.
Here is the general idea. I couldn't find a see through diagram of the XJ so I had to work with a old wagoneer diagram which is similar in shape but bigger as you know, so the true length of these pieces will be shorter on the XJ.
But the the yellow will be 2x4 rectangular box sandwiched up against the subframe with gussets coming out to a slider of the same rectangular box.
Then the red frame will be of thickwall 2" box that is cut and welded back into the existing pillars almost flush on the inside. Except the front pillars which will be removed and replaced with the box tubing. I will leave just enough of the windshield frame metal to mount the factory windshield.
Where the frame meets the sliders there will be plates on the inside that bolt through the floor board to the different attachment points on the slider.
The roof will come off at the gutter and the front will be trimmed to meet up with front cross bar and the existing side metal up to the gutter will be mated with the front to back bar along the top.
Then the roof will be replaced with a slightly heavier gauge sheet. Only thing I wasn't able to show here is that all the roof cross pieces will actually be arched about 2" for added strength and headroom.
And of course there will be some minimal trussing at the corners not shown, and a connector side to side around and behind the front seats not shown.
But I think the shape and the concept of strengthening the existing skeleton explains why it would be to my advantage to use box material for this? And honestly I don't think it is going to add as much weight as I might figure using only 2" to do this but it's going to be much stronger than the factory skeletons on these lumps of pot metal.
Anyways that's a rough idea of the concept I'm thinking of. If anyone spots something I'm going to run into please let me know!
Looks good man. My only suggestion would be some triangulation in that middle roof section. Want to triangulate wherever possible to ensure the most rigidity. Most people will do a two "section" roof or "halo" instead of 3 sections that you have pictured just for simplicity and weight saving's sake.
Here's an excellent example:
He's a fabricator for Happy Trails 4x4 in Jax, FL and a fellow forum member. His rig was on Ultimate Adventure this past summer too. The exo pictured as well as the exo on his previous XJ were excellent designs.
Originally Posted by TeXJ
From what i've seen in XJs that have rolled over, the A pillar really comes down. It seems the rest of the supports seem to hold better.
But I'm a wuss and just wheel to have fun and not see if i can roll my baby
lol... I'm the same.
As far as the A pillars go though, I've only seen that happen with factory shells. Unless your cage design really sucks, the thicker tube steel of a properly built cage will stay in place without distortion.
Looks good man. My only suggestion would be some triangulation in that middle roof section. Want to triangulate wherever possible to ensure the most rigidity. Most people will do a two "section" roof or "halo" instead of 3 sections that you have pictured just for simplicity and weight saving's sake.
I agree with that center section, and it probably wouldn't hurt to extend the front A pillars down to the front of the slider also When you say two sections instead of three, are you talking about the caging behind the rear seat back to the rear pillars and the hatch hinges? I tried to go look at the examples but they were taking too long to load for me right now. I will go renew my phone plan to get back my high speed allotment later today and try again. lol
As far as the A pillars go though, I've only seen that happen with factory shells. Unless your cage design really sucks, the thicker tube steel of a properly built cage will stay in place without distortion.
Yes, sorry, I meant to say that about the factory roof and not having an exo/interior cage.
I agree with that center section, and it probably wouldn't hurt to extend the front A pillars down to the front of the slider also When you say two sections instead of three, are you talking about the caging behind the rear seat back to the rear pillars and the hatch hinges? I tried to go look at the examples but they were taking too long to load for me right now. I will go renew my phone plan to get back my high speed allotment later today and try again. lol
Kinda hard to verbalize it. All I can do is provide more visual examples lol... you'll appreciate it much more when you get your high speed back up.
Here's the halo layouts... The other bar going across the rear is just to tie in the c-pillars
So essentially, this is what the cage would look like.
Originally Posted by TeXJ
Yes, sorry, I meant to say that about the factory roof and not having an exo/interior cage.
No worries, I kinda figured that's what you were meaning.
Kinda hard to verbalize it. All I can do is provide more visual examples lol... you'll appreciate it much more when you get your high speed back up.
Here's the halo layouts... The other bar going across the rear is just to tie in the c-pillars
So essentially, this is what the cage would look like.
Wow that's fantastic! I completely understand now what you were meaning and it absolutely makes sense structurally. My only question would be related to the fact that I would like to replace the whole roof with a single sheet without cutting it attached to the roll cage it's self around the top. This is why I included the rear part all the way back to the hatch hinges. But if I run those cross bars flat from gutter to gutter I am going to lose a lot of headroom and a little curvature in the front and back are going to be required to somewhat follow the existing shape and mate up with the windshield frame and the rear hatch hinges.
So my thoughts were to miter each cross bar in two places on just three sides and then weld them back as a bent bow profile to give me back some headroom and the curve I would need to mate up front and rear. This one sheet concept might keep me from utilizing what you show here if I bow these. Meaning it might be easier to make my folds in the roof sheet over the bows to match rectangular profiles easier than triangular profiles. If I make these cross pieces bowed I am going to have to cut and weld the roof sheet to fit a triangular profile right?
(I see now that I placed the two bars running front to back in the wrong representation locations but my "bow" concept. They would be farther to the outside to make it fit the front and rear correctly. My fault sorry about that. )
Wow that's fantastic! I completely understand now what you were meaning and it absolutely makes sense structurally. My only question would be related to the fact that I would like to replace the whole roof with a single sheet without cutting it attached to the roll cage it's self around the top. This is why I included the rear part all the way back to the hatch hinges. But if I run those cross bars flat from gutter to gutter I am going to lose a lot of headroom and a little curvature in the front and back are going to be required to somewhat follow the existing shape and mate up with the windshield frame and the rear hatch hinges.
So my thoughts were to miter each cross bar in two places on just three sides and then weld them back as a bent bow profile to give me back some headroom and the curve I would need to mate up front and rear. This one sheet concept might keep me from utilizing what you show here if I bow these. Meaning it might be easier to make my folds in the roof sheet over the bows to match rectangular profiles easier than triangular profiles. If I make these cross pieces bowed I am going to have to cut and weld the roof sheet to fit a triangular profile right?
(I see now that I placed the two bars running front to back in the wrong representation locations but my "bow" concept. They would be farther to the outside to make it fit the front and rear correctly. My fault sorry about that. )
Okay, so what you're saying is that you're planning on a design where the top of the cage is not flush with the top of the windshield, is that correct?
Okay, so what you're saying is that you're planning on a design where the top of the cage is not flush with the top of the windshield, is that correct?
Unfortunately both the windshield and the back where the hatch frame and hings are have a bow of about 3-4 inches. From the gutter on one side it bows up, across, and then back down to the gutter on the other side. Now I can take almost two inches off from this difference by how I situate the box tubing along the gutter mating area and raise it to almost the bottom of the box. But I am still going to need to bow it an inch or more to clear the windshield frame in the front and mate it correctly with the back hatch hinges.
Which means I will also have to bow the other cross pieces to match this bow in the front and back. What I mean by Bow with this box tubing would be marking each into three segments and then make two cuts into but not all the way though at these three mark measurements. I would cut only the three lower sides of the box so that I can just fold the third uncut flat down and weld.
This would make a three straight segment bow rather than a curved bow. What's going to happen at that point is I will have three flat roof planes running front to back folded over these side to side bows. One sheet can be easy to fold on these planes like this but throwing triangles in the mix might cause me to have to cut the roof sheet to accommodate the extra angles thrown in the mix? I'm just trying to not need to cut the one piece roof sheet if I can help it. lol
Unfortunately both the windshield and the back where the hatch frame and hings are have a bow of about 3-4 inches. From the gutter on one side it bows up, across, and then back down to the gutter on the other side. Now I can take almost two inches off from this difference by how I situate the box tubing along the gutter mating area and raise it to almost the bottom of the box. But I am still going to need to bow it an inch or more to clear the windshield frame in the front and mate it correctly with the back hatch hinges.
Which means I will also have to bow the other cross pieces to match this bow in the front and back. What I mean by Bow with this box tubing would be marking each into three segments and then make two cuts into but not all the way though at these three mark measurements. I would cut only the three lower sides of the box so that I can just fold the third uncut flat down and weld.
This would make a three straight segment bow rather than a curved bow. What's going to happen at that point is I will have three flat roof planes running front to back folded over these side to side bows. One sheet can be easy to fold on these planes like this but throwing triangles in the mix might cause me to have to cut the roof sheet to accommodate the extra angles thrown in the mix? I'm just trying to not need to cut the one piece roof sheet if I can help it. lol
Ah okay. Yeah I'm not going to be much help with that lol.... only thing I've seen people do is bend the tube into the shape they need to match the windshield and then skin it however they need to. Of course, they're using round tube and probably are rolling the sheet metal into shape too.
Ah okay. Yeah I'm not going to be much help with that lol.... only thing I've seen people do is bend the tube into the shape they need to match the windshield and then skin it however they need to. Of course, they're using round tube and probably are rolling the sheet metal into shape too.
See that's where the issue is... The factory skeleton lines and corners on these are sharp 90 degrees and 45 degrees and I'm trying to keep the side skins and door jams.
See that's where the issue is... The factory skeleton lines and corners on these are sharp 90 degrees and 45 degrees and I'm trying to keep the side skins and door jams.
Oh wow, AND the jambs? That's gonna be really tough man. Not only is the roof bowed on the side to side axis, it's also bowed on the front to back axis. I know it appears flat, but that roof is anything BUT flat.
Oh wow, AND the jambs? That's gonna be really tough man. Not only is the roof bowed on the side to side axis, it's also bowed on the front to back axis. I know it appears flat, but that roof is anything BUT flat.
You are absolutely right. It is going to be a lot of intricate cutting but I think it will be worth it in the end. The idea is to cut slots into the factory pillars on the inside and embed the box tubing into the pillars. They are also curved from the bottom to the top slightly but using box will make this much easier to mate up along side of the box flats even though the pillar is curved slightly, with round this would be impossible to get right.
And the roof is indeed bowed from front to back about an inch. But the factory roof is coming off and getting trashed. And the gutter is straight and flat and this is what I will be working with. So as long as I bow my side to side roof pieces about 4 inches total to get the head room back side to side, I can afford to lose that inch of bow front to back that the factory roof had.
But I think hybridizing the box cage inside the factory pillars will help strengthen each other yet I can retain my door jams and side sheet up to the gutter piece running front to back.
You do know you can get dies for benders for square tube too, right?
Hey man! thanks for chiming in! I was looking at those and have wanted one for a long time that will do both round and box. But I'm not sure how well they will bend thickwall box. Do you have any experience using these on thickwall? I didn't really need to buy one yet and was also concerned how well it will bend this stuff if at all. But if you think it will, I'm on it...
12-15-2017, 03:06 PM
