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I think either way you're looking at a welded corner joint. I can't picture square tubing being bent farther than round tubing, and it sounds like you're needing a perfect 90* angle - which, from what I can imagine, can't be accomplished without a cut n' weld.
But, that being said I like your idea with replacing the factory skel with the square tubing. I think that would work fine as an interior cage - not so much as an exo though (for the points that your "opposer" mentioned)
These points are why I moved this over here. And every point he made is legitimate fact and well addressed. He is right that for an exoskeleton round would indeed be better, but somewhere along the way I changed concepts and wanted to explain more over here. And yes it would require cut and weld on at least three sides to make true square corners and stay true to shape on these round or square the same. And he is absolutely right about welds weakening the metal it is attached to, but... Ronin and I have discussed this I think in the past a couple times.
There is a current trend of grabbing higher tensile welding rod to weld soft material. This is one of the main problems with weld breakage and fatigue problems. The key is to use welding medium that is closer in malleability to the stock you are welding so that they can flex and work together at a similar tensile strength rather than work against each other hard verses soft.
As for weight? I would be removing quite a bit from the factory structure before adding back with the cage. But honestly? It wouldn't hurt these at all to have a little more weight to them and make them ride a little better overall.
And that brings up another example of what I am pointing to. Why is it that when your fishing license expires you no longer have any credibility or knowledge in the art of fishing until you renew it again? Same with a driver's license... when it expires all of a sudden society has some idea all knowledge of how to drive is now gone until you renew your license and get all those years of driving knowledge back again.
Or, as an opposite yet similarly supporting view - what or who's to say that just because you renew your license before it expires that you have said credibility and knowledge in the skills and rules of driving? We've all seen plenty of idiots on the road that are licensed drivers (presumably) that can't drive for ****!
Originally Posted by Bugout4x4
These points are why I moved this over here. And every point he made is legitimate fact and well addressed. He is right that for an exoskeleton round would indeed be better, but somewhere along the way I changed concepts and wanted to explain more over here. And yes it would require cut and weld on at least three sides to make true square corners and stay true to shape on these round or square the same. And he is absolutely right about welds weakening the metal it is attached to, but... Ronin and I have discussed this I think in the past a couple times.
There is a current trend of grabbing higher tensile welding rod to weld soft material. This is one of the main problems with weld breakage and fatigue problems. The key is to use welding medium that is closer in malleability to the stock you are welding so that they can flex and work together at a similar tensile strength rather than work against each other hard verses soft.
As for weight? I would be removing quite a bit from the factory structure before adding back with the cage. But honestly? It wouldn't hurt these at all to have a little more weight to them and make them ride a little better overall.
Excellent points, man. Can't wait to see what you come up with.
Or, as an opposite yet similarly supporting view - what or who's to say that just because you renew your license before it expires that you have said credibility and knowledge in the skills and rules of driving? We've all seen plenty of idiots on the road that are licensed drivers (presumably) that can't drive for ****!
Does Anyone know if stiffners can be done with tig or stick reasonably? Those are the only 220 v machines that I could possibly use. I have a flux core harbor freight 110 mig but it definitely won’t cut it.
Harbor freight welder will cut it for the unibody I used one for my frame stiffeners, it'll still burn through if your not careful. I built my girlfriends entire yj on 1 tons and 40s with a little harbor freight welder cause that's all I could use in her driveway. It's been very abused and in an accident too, nothing broke but a bent leaf. Not that I recommend harbor freight flux welders over anything else but it'll work if that's all you have.
Harbor freight welder will cut it for the unibody I used one for my frame stiffeners, it'll still burn through if your not careful. I built my girlfriends entire yj on 1 tons and 40s with a little harbor freight welder cause that's all I could use in her driveway. It's been very abused and in an accident too, nothing broke but a bent leaf. Not that I recommend harbor freight flux welders over anything else but it'll work if that's all you have.
I’m not worried about the frame, more the 3/16†plate that I’m trying to attach to it. I tried welding on my lca skids with it and I couldn’t get them to burn in.
I €™m not worried about the frame, more the 3/16 € plate that I €™m trying to attach to it. I tried welding on my lca skids with it and I couldn €™t get them to burn in.
I used it on max and wire speed 4 with 035 Lincoln inner shield wire, travel kinda slow and focus more on the thicker material. My frame plates burned in just fine
I used it on max and wire speed 4 with 035 Lincoln inner shield wire, travel kinda slow and focus more on the thicker material. My frame plates burned in just fine
That Lincoln wire is a big improvement on that little HF flux core machine. Not saying that the HF welder is awesome, by any means, but it converts it from a pile of useless crap to a functional machine, for sure.
That Lincoln wire is a big improvement on that little HF flux core machine. Not saying that the HF welder is awesome, by any means, but it converts it from a pile of useless crap to a functional machine, for sure.
Yea they're ok when you figure them out I built this whole jeep with one, spring hangers, bumper, traction bar hell even the driveshaft and everything works great. I have a Lincoln stick welder for thicker stuff but didn't touch it for this
That's a badass YJ. Pretty on par with the MJ you posted up in the picture thread.
Thanks and I don't have an mj that's my xj that I cut up and welded the rear doors shut. I gotta get the pic off my computer to start a build thread on here.
Thanks and I don't have an mj that's my xj that I cut up and welded the rear doors shut. I gotta get the pic off my computer to start a build thread on here.
Ugh... yeah I knew that, but my brain made me type MJ anyway
Excellent points, man. Can't wait to see what you come up with.
Here is the general idea. I couldn't find a see through diagram of the XJ so I had to work with a old wagoneer diagram which is similar in shape but bigger as you know, so the true length of these pieces will be shorter on the XJ.
But the the yellow will be 2x4 rectangular box sandwiched up against the subframe with gussets coming out to a slider of the same rectangular box.
Then the red frame will be of thickwall 2" box that is cut and welded back into the existing pillars almost flush on the inside. Except the front pillars which will be removed and replaced with the box tubing. I will leave just enough of the windshield frame metal to mount the factory windshield.
Where the frame meets the sliders there will be plates on the inside that bolt through the floor board to the different attachment points on the slider.
The roof will come off at the gutter and the front will be trimmed to meet up with front cross bar and the existing side metal up to the gutter will be mated with the front to back bar along the top.
Then the roof will be replaced with a slightly heavier gauge sheet. Only thing I wasn't able to show here is that all the roof cross pieces will actually be arched about 2" for added strength and headroom.
And of course there will be some minimal trussing at the corners not shown, and a connector side to side around and behind the front seats not shown.
But I think the shape and the concept of strengthening the existing skeleton explains why it would be to my advantage to use box material for this? And honestly I don't think it is going to add as much weight as I might figure using only 2" to do this but it's going to be much stronger than the factory skeletons on these lumps of pot metal.
Anyways that's a rough idea of the concept I'm thinking of. If anyone spots something I'm going to run into please let me know!
12-01-2017, 07:27 AM
