Long Arm Kit
CF Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 4,869
Likes: 14
A two link is two lower bars, each with a bushing end and fixed to the axle at the other end. Easiest way to explain it is if you imagine wacking off each of your leaf packs directly after the pearchs leaving the front attached, and using a panhard bar.
or a ford radius arm, because that is exactly what you are describing
In a radius system the only use for the upper bushings or heims is for articulation. They serve no other function, such as axle rotation, because they are fixed to the lower link bars. In order to maintain proper pinion angles throughout suspension travel you need your axle to have proper rotation. This is a major downfall of leaf sprung axles as well.
pinion angle is only critical at ride height, when offroad a couple degree difference isn't going to make or break you. This setup performs just like the ford radius arms (or "2 link"), its just a different method of attatching to the axle.
or a ford radius arm, because that is exactly what you are describing
In a radius system the only use for the upper bushings or heims is for articulation. They serve no other function, such as axle rotation, because they are fixed to the lower link bars. In order to maintain proper pinion angles throughout suspension travel you need your axle to have proper rotation. This is a major downfall of leaf sprung axles as well.
pinion angle is only critical at ride height, when offroad a couple degree difference isn't going to make or break you. This setup performs just like the ford radius arms (or "2 link"), its just a different method of attatching to the axle.
CF Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 0
Year: 87
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I would thin if he s going to build an expedition style rig which means days away from a repair facility. He would want something that is beefy. Personally my rig breaks on the trail.. we drag to the access road.. and winch it up on the trailer, family and everyone with me laughs about how I had one tire 4' in the air before I flopped.. and its all good. Being in the back country o have a few bolts shear off and leave you stranded with no cell phone reception and you are screwed.
Its one thing to have no skills, and bad equipment, then it is to have Pimp gear and still turn out beginner level suspension systems cause they are only 2 frame mounts and some links. Just my opionion there. Study up on suspension design and put out some quality product.
Its one thing to have no skills, and bad equipment, then it is to have Pimp gear and still turn out beginner level suspension systems cause they are only 2 frame mounts and some links. Just my opionion there. Study up on suspension design and put out some quality product.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Please look at my Back yard driveway build....
87 xj
8 pt cage
doubler with a Flat skid and cable shifters
full width axles built
fuel cell
90 mj
3 link/4link
4,3 doubler
39.5" tires
24 " belly height
My work might not be pretty, but my designs are proven and they work. I probrbably sell more cotrol arms and cage work then you will make sellling kits.
I remember when I got my first welder and started putting out stuff that "wasn't pretty, but strong." Buying a welder and a couple tools, doesn't make you a fabricator, just like buying a thermometer and a lab coat, doesn't make you a doctor.
Radias arm setup are suckey.. that simple. Then to lower the x member cause you dont have 150 dollars is really lame when you have a 2k table. What credit card run out of room?
Suckey?
Well, I would be willing to bet the tens of thousands of people across the world running radius arm set up are gonna be pissed to find out their chit ain't no good. And despite what they think or experienced it hasn't been doing a good job. No, one ever said I don't have $150. Oh, and its more like 7k for the table
I am leaving in 5 hrs to try out some of my new work.. if you want to wheel and put your rig on the line.. you can follow me. I will be at the Cove campground in Gore Va.... Real world testing my rig
Seriously dude!?!?
87 xj
8 pt cage
doubler with a Flat skid and cable shifters
full width axles built
fuel cell
90 mj
3 link/4link
4,3 doubler
39.5" tires
24 " belly height
My work might not be pretty, but my designs are proven and they work. I probrbably sell more cotrol arms and cage work then you will make sellling kits.
I remember when I got my first welder and started putting out stuff that "wasn't pretty, but strong." Buying a welder and a couple tools, doesn't make you a fabricator, just like buying a thermometer and a lab coat, doesn't make you a doctor.
Radias arm setup are suckey.. that simple. Then to lower the x member cause you dont have 150 dollars is really lame when you have a 2k table. What credit card run out of room?
Suckey?
Well, I would be willing to bet the tens of thousands of people across the world running radius arm set up are gonna be pissed to find out their chit ain't no good. And despite what they think or experienced it hasn't been doing a good job. No, one ever said I don't have $150. Oh, and its more like 7k for the table
I am leaving in 5 hrs to try out some of my new work.. if you want to wheel and put your rig on the line.. you can follow me. I will be at the Cove campground in Gore Va.... Real world testing my rig
Seriously dude!?!?
Junior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 15,016
Likes: 11
From: +34° 25' 35.67", -81° 21' 12.04"
Year: 1993
Engine: 4.0
You keep assuming that because folks are on the internet that they have no idea what they're doing because they don't agree with you.
Last edited by Lowrange2; May 16, 2013 at 08:28 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 711
Likes: 0
From: provo, utah
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Venom I like it man I'm going to stat building I own soon ... It would be cool to see some prints with measurement for the crossmember ??
Good job man I like what you've done
Good job man I like what you've done
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
You're reading too far into my posts.
I don't understand why you didn't go the extra step and build something BETTER...
Like I said, it was for a couple reasons.
1.) I didn't want to get to crazy on something that was eventually gonna get replaced, when I throw new axles under it.
2.)I want to set it up as an expedition rig for now, so I can continue to drive it.
3.)I wanted to design something that could be installed by somebody with minimal welding. I may even design a couple brackets to make it a complete bolt on application for those without welders.
Yes, I'm quite aware of that backyard builds that go on here. What I'm saying is that your "well thought out design" is exactly like the other 50 "well thought out designs". You obviously have the skills to make it better. Why not do it?
See above
Not once have I bashed your build. I've simply made suggestions. You just seem to get all pissed off when I say it could be better.
Never once have I got pissed at you, or your comments. I rather appreciate them, because you have kept it respectful. My comment was about another poster, that wants to bash my stuff on one hand, and then tell my how his stuff "isn't pretty, but it works."
Who cares if all you plan to do is "explore"? That's the same mentality that these dumb ****ing Florida mud trucks are built with... "It's just a mud truck, I'll use 24" lift blocks and stock steering."
Mines temporary.
But no worries. Thousands will buy your kit if the price point is right now matter the design. Just look at IRO. Worst design on the face of the planet yet they sell out constantly because they're 100 bucks cheaper than the next guy.
Anyway, carry on.
I don't understand why you didn't go the extra step and build something BETTER...
Like I said, it was for a couple reasons.
1.) I didn't want to get to crazy on something that was eventually gonna get replaced, when I throw new axles under it.
2.)I want to set it up as an expedition rig for now, so I can continue to drive it.
3.)I wanted to design something that could be installed by somebody with minimal welding. I may even design a couple brackets to make it a complete bolt on application for those without welders.
Yes, I'm quite aware of that backyard builds that go on here. What I'm saying is that your "well thought out design" is exactly like the other 50 "well thought out designs". You obviously have the skills to make it better. Why not do it?
See above
Not once have I bashed your build. I've simply made suggestions. You just seem to get all pissed off when I say it could be better.
Never once have I got pissed at you, or your comments. I rather appreciate them, because you have kept it respectful. My comment was about another poster, that wants to bash my stuff on one hand, and then tell my how his stuff "isn't pretty, but it works."
Who cares if all you plan to do is "explore"? That's the same mentality that these dumb ****ing Florida mud trucks are built with... "It's just a mud truck, I'll use 24" lift blocks and stock steering."
Mines temporary.
But no worries. Thousands will buy your kit if the price point is right now matter the design. Just look at IRO. Worst design on the face of the planet yet they sell out constantly because they're 100 bucks cheaper than the next guy.
Anyway, carry on.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 15,016
Likes: 11
From: +34° 25' 35.67", -81° 21' 12.04"
Year: 1993
Engine: 4.0
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I have actually learned a great deal from people on the internet, but you have to know who to believe, and who to discredit. I think people see a new guy come on here, with something that has what you called pretty welds on his project, and nice equipment, and the automatic reaction was to try and poke holes in the design. Why? If you have a suggestion as to how to improve upon an idea, then why not offer the suggestion without the backhanded compliment?
I have been asked why I did certain things the way I did, and offered up an explanation, that obviously some people cant just leave alone.
CF Veteran
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,740
Likes: 0
Year: 87
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just follow along on my truggy build man.. you might learn something about suspension design. Also I have a decent shop.. not PIMP like yours I only have 4 welders, plasma, and a tubing bender
... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on hereMy rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just follow along on my truggy build man.. you might learn something about suspension design. Also I have a decent shop.. not PIMP like yours I only have 4 welders, plasma, and a tubing bender... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on here
My rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on hereMy rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
I've bent MILES of tubing, and pulled miles of beads in the past 18 years. Just because your chit hasn't broken, doesn't mean you have a clue.
So ya, go ahead, and teach me something about suspension design....Lol!
Last edited by Venom; May 16, 2013 at 10:09 AM.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just follow along on my truggy build man.. you might learn something about suspension design. Also I have a decent shop.. not PIMP like yours I only have 4 welders, plasma, and a tubing bender... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on here
My rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on hereMy rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Just follow along on my truggy build man.. you might learn something about suspension design. Also I have a decent shop.. not PIMP like yours I only have 4 welders, plasma, and a tubing bender... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on here
My rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.
... so lets see some of your tube work.. mine is on hereMy rig might not be the prettiest cause I beat the crap out of it.. some of my fab work is less then stella, but thats old work.. seems you are set on putting out an inferior product because ppl want it.. instead of building something that is better and more complex then tw frame mounts.