po0dingles

So I've been having some trouble turning my 98 5.2L Grand Cherokee.

It's as if the power steering cuts out mid turn and I'm wrestling the vehicle into a parking space or when backing up.

I figured I'd go ahead and have a shop do a power steering "flush" but when I called Tires Plus to make an appointment, the guy said it's not necessary since it's a closed system.

I've read all over that changing your power steering is important. I'm not the original owner, and this thing has 140k miles on her. I want to change the power steering fluid regardless of whether or not it fixes my problem. Whether they "flush" or replace--i don't care. I just figured it needs to be done. There's fluid in there now. I want to make sure it's clean.


As far as my problem goes - I've also read that it could be the VC that could be going and causing steering problems, though I don't exactly understand how.

At any rate, with this many miles I'm due for a VC change. Not interested in a swap. Not going to listen to any suggestions to do it unless someone's going to come over here and do it for me free of charge.

The steering is also a little loose, and I wanted to have a reputable mechanic (not tires plus) fix this. What can I tell them to do? Isn't there a screw or something that can be turned to tighten the steering up without removing the system?

dave1123

I'm going to try to explain about that screw on top of the steering box. Today's steering boxes are recirculating ball, that is the gear teeth are actually ball bearings that ride in semi-circular grooves between the 2 shafts and distribute the load. they come out one end of the gear mesh and are directed into the other end, thus "recirculating". All the screw does is align the shafts so the ball path is circular. Once this path becomes out of round, there isn't any way to fix it except replace the box or disassemble it and replace both shafts which is not cost effective. As a matter of fact, parts are not available anymore.

The best way to tell if it's the VC causing your problem is to jack up the front end and try turning the wheels by hand with the engine not running. If you can, it's not your steering box that's binding. When you do this, have someone rock the steering wheel back and forth while you observe the linkage to see is there is any looseness in the tie rod ends or connecting link.

As far as flushing the system is concerned, do it because the fluid breaks down over time because of heat and wear. The pressure control valve may also need to be replaced. It's generally located in the outlet of the pump where the pressure hose connects. When I replaced the pump on my wife's Dodge Caravan, I had to use the old one because the new pump didn't come with one.

About the heat, I've notice that some GM cars have a small cooler coil with fins in the power steering circuit. I thought that was a good idea.

dave1123

Another thing. Any system with an atmospheric vented reservoir is NOT a closed system. The only closed system I can think of on a jeep is the viscous coupling. That is a sealed unit with fluid inside.

po0dingles

I think I get how it works. I did see a video from Bleepin Jeep where he had a guy disassemble the steering box and it showed the ball bearings rolling around. But I thought that there was an adjustment that could be done to "tighten" steering up. Is this not true?

The wheel slop isn't awful, just not as sharp as my vette so I wanted to try and tighten it up if possible. There's about 1-2 inches of side-to-side turning I can perform before it responds on the road.


So these guys basically know nothing about what they're saying? This place doesn't even have a code reader for GC's. I at least figured they'd be capable of changing oil. I was surprised to even hear him turn down a service that I was requesting on my own.

I thought a 98 5.2L ZJ didn't come with a PCV, but had some rubber oriface or something. Am I wrong on this? I'd love to tear into this thing and replace things proactively since I'm not the original owner and have no idea how this thing has been cared for. The headliner was beat to hell when I got it so lord only knows.

Interesting point on the heatsink. I always wondered why motors in general weren't made with heatsinks built into the block. Take a look at any air-cooled 4-stroke dirt bike:

dave1123

And your point is what? That's the purpose on a liquid cooling system.

What really fractures my mind is with today's technology, why does a heat engine need a cooling system at all? Internal combustion engines are NOT efficient by ANY means. I forget the numbers, but even the most efficient engines only use about 18% of the latent energy available in the fuel.

po0dingles

My point is that a similar design could be made for v8 blocks to dissipate some of the heat in conjunction with liquid cooling. However, I do know the LS1 motors are supposed to be kept at a certain temperature range. I had always been under the impression cooler is better but not necessarily. That's my only point, just that some engines could benefit from both.

PeterB

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Interesting. Subscribed for the education on cooling. Thankyou.

PeterB.


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dave1123

I'm sorry about the rant. Actually you bring up a point. In the 50s and 60s, engines were only allowed to run at 180* because it was thought they would wear less at that temperature. With today's harder steel blocks and better oils, they run at about 210* for better fuel efficiency. This allows smaller cooling systems but requires better heat transfer. The basic engine design hasn't changed in over 100 years. We need something better than flying pistons and fossil fuels, but something that is within the average consumer's buying power. Not going to happen in the near future.

There is no easy answer to fossil fuels. They represent the most bang-for-the-buck when it comes to producing heat and the world's infrastructure is set up for it's use.

Sorry, I'm ranting again. It's just that this has bothered me for many years. I'm sort of following PeterB's problem of not staying on topic. I'll shut up now.

po0dingles

I've been doing a bit of research on Tesla. I don't know the science or environmental impact of batteries (other than they require chemicals and special disposal just like oil)... but being able to get 300+ miles out of a single charge seems pretty alluring to me. In addition there's no transmission so there's tons more room. With Musk's effort to install free charging stations across the country, 20 minutes will be all it costs to "fill a tank".

They're still expensive, but the vision is to introduce an economy line at a price point more affordable to the masses. Tesla just has to battle the stealerships who are creating legal roadblocks for the company. Gotta love the free market at work.

But anyway...is there a way to tighten up the slop in my steering wheel?

I will do the tests you've recommended.

dave1123

The only fault with electric cars, besides the price, is we're still burning coal and oil or gas to produce the electricity. We're on the edge of brown-outs now. What happens when everybody needs to charge their cars? Solar and wind won't handle it and people don't trust hydroelectric dams, not to mention atomics.

JBimmolate

How about one that runs on compressed air?
http://geekologie.com/2012/02/8k-com...g-in-augus.php

Miles

po0dingles

dave1123

AGAIN, what powers your compressor?

po0dingles

Dave, I wouldn't write off solar completely. There are some pretty innovative technologies out now that have both reduced the cost of solar and improved their efficiency.

I get what you're saying about the demand on the grid, however Tesla's power stations are solar and I believe they also sell solar fixtures for the home that store energy for charging at night.

On another note - can I get a response regarding the steering adjustment?

dave1123

I've tried to adjust my Chevy truck's box with that screw. 1/4 turn in either direction from where it was causes a bind. Then I did some research and found the adjustment was designed for the original set-up of the box, aligning the pathway for the *****. To find out if this pathway is worn, try turning the steering wheel either left or right near the limit and check the free play in it with the engine shut off. If it's worn, you should have a lot less play at the limits than in the center. The screw is a vertical adjustment of the pitman arm shaft, not an eccentric to move it closer to the steering shaft.

Also, there is a little play built into the box because the servo has to move off center in order to apply hydraulic pressure to the steering.

Rack-and-pinion steering is a lot more positive than the system jeeps have, but is almost impossible to install on them because they need to have the unit pretty close to axle centerline.

I know, clear as mud, right?