cmsaw83

Hey all. Some of you may recognize my screen name from a couple other threads I've been active in over the past several months, or even other people's threads, if they had anything to do with the notorious PCM problems, which leave Jeep owners scratching their heads for days, weeks, months, even years! Man, I'm sure there have GOT to be plenty of guys out there who have just trashed/scrapped their Jeep ZJs behind issues similar to the one I've been discussing around here lately. I would be lying if I said that I hadn't thoroughly considered it myself! As I had tried EVERYTHING that I could come up with on my own, along with every single possible suggestion that I could get from any of the guys and/or gals, here on this forum, as well as other popular Jeep forums, yet, no matter what I tried, no matter what I replaced, fixed, changed, whatever, it just never made a lick of difference. I'd go out in the morning, and I'd work all day on whatever was the most recent suggestion from someone, and I'd get everything as it should be, and at the end of each and every day - for what has turned into literal MONTHS now - I would get finished with whatever project I may have been working on, only to jump into my ZJ, and start out driving beautifully, only to reach operating temperature 8 to 15 minutes later, and for EVERYTHING to start going haywire! It was always the same ol' song and dance, every single time.

But yesterday, I cannot even remember what it was that lead me to the place where I saw the post, but there was a post about some guy who had been having problems exactly like my own, to hear him explain it. Only, this guy, he had a Snap-On diagnostic tool - which I never had at my disposal - which provided him with very valuable information. However, I am not certain that this guy was necessarily the best at knowing how to use/operate the tool in general, to begin with. And additionally, because of his lack of knowledge surrounding the tool in general, he also had a kind of difficult time trying to explain the results he would get back from using the diagnostic tool. At the end of the day though, it didn't matter too much about all that. At least not for me it seems. Because something about the things which were being said in that conversation, they just seemed to make several good things just sort of fal right into place in my head, until I had this idea of sorts. So, the idea all centered around the Crankshaft Position Sensor. And even though the one that had been in there at the time, was the 2nd new one, and an NTK, still, I just kept telling myself "what if, by some freak set of events occuring, surrounding these sensors, and myself, and the places they were being sold, it turned out that even the third brand new sensor I had installed in my Jeep, was actually defective, or non-functional, or otherwise malfunctioning somehow, in some way, which would allow it to work just enough, that the engine would always start right up, and the Jeep would run, but after it warmed up, for whatever reason, it just was somehow the root of this entire issue where my ZJ would start to go haywire, and ballistic all at the same time?! So, I decide, since the NTK crankshaft position sensor I had purchased a couple months back, happened to come with a 3 yr limited lifetime warranty, that I would return it, and get a brand new one, and install it in the Jeep, and see after doing so, would it finally resolve this crazy problem I had been experiencing for all this crazy amount of time. I remove the existing sensor, I take it on up to the closest Advanced Auto Parts location near me, that had a new one readily available, and I complete the exchange, and I walk out with the new part. I take it to the house, and I get out of my Jeep, with the box in hand, and I proceed to open the box up, at which point, I came to realize that there was actually some paperwork regarding the sensor, which came in this package, but that I know for certain, that I most certainly did NOT receive upon purchasing the previous sensor. So, naturally, after all this endless BS I have gone through with this Jeep up to this point in time, I elect to do the right thing, and to NOT ignore, and throw away the paperwork. And instead, I made the additionally wise choice, of reading it to myself in full (which only took going over the paperwork a total of 3 times, in full, in order for me to realize that, if I needed to be performing this installation by NTK's standards and procedure`listed in this documentation, then it was very possible that I had botched up the install myself, and that the part itself, may not have been defective at all, not even in the least. But rather, it could certainly be the case, that I might have been the one responsible for these problems persisting for such an extended period of time my doggone self!

So, I wanted to take a sec, in order to explain the information that I learned from within this documentation which was included with this most recently purchased crankshaft position sensor, on the off chance that it might turn out to be news to some other(s) here on the forum, or elsewhere, who may end up here through the always mysterious, and interesting circumstances and situations which revolve around anyone who has ever dealt with this similar type of situation with their own Jeep. It was certainly all news to me! Because as I said, there had been no documentation with the previous sensor I had purchased, but additionally, none of the YouTube channels, or videos, mentioned anything about any of what I had read in this documentation yesterday. Rather, any YouTube video one may find themselves watching, just tells you to connect a bunch of extentions onto one's socket, along with a universal joint upon the tip of this now well extended socket wrench, and to use this apparatus in order to loosen the bolt which holds the CPS onto the corresponding bell-housing, after which, they just instruct you to get back up into the engine bay, and reach down behind the engine itself, and feel around for a cord, and then pull said cord, along with said CPS, right on out of their respective holes. And installation of the new CPS, is always just the same as removal, only in reverse... Well... NOT if you go by the paperwork included within the packaging of an NTK branded CPS. You see, in this paperwork, they make it abundantly clear, that it is of the utmost importance to ensure that the cardboard spacer, which comes already glued on to the tip of their CPS, is installed in such a fashion, as would have it basically touching the shaft it is tasked with receiving it's readings from, from within the very same bell-housing that its tab is fastened to. This paperwork goes further, into explaining the fact that, if installed properly, then the cardboard spacer which comes glued to the tip of the CPS upon purchase, should be immediately torn, ripped, or other wise removed, from the face/tip of the newly installed CPS, effectively leaving the exact amount of space between the sensor, and the shaft itself, which is REQUIRED in order for this particular component to provide proper information to the PCM. If this part is not installed to such specifications, it is not just suggested that it might not function properly, but that one can pretty much count on it not functioning as it is intended to do. And this documentation goes further into explaining about how an improperly installed CPS can adversely effect the engine in many different, and undesirable ways, so it is extremely important to ensure that, for one, before installing the sensor, that you stick your finger into it's hole/home, to ensure that the cardboard spacer is going to be able to meet up to the surface of the shaft within the bell-housing, and, for two, that when installing the replacement CPS, you figure out some way to apply downward force/pressure upon the back end of the CPS (essentially, pushing the end with the wire hanging out of it, so that the opposite end - the tip, within the bell-housing, is able to maintain it's contact with the shaft (via the cardboard spacer, which can be seen glued to the tip of the sensor upon removing the sensor from it's packaging prior to beginning this process of installation) as you are tightening up the retaining bolt for the CPS, so that, once you have the bolt fastened to the proper torque spec, the CPS will be in the proper position, in relation to the crankshaft within the bell-housing that the CPS gets fastened to. (I used a longer than usual "wonder-bar" pry bar that I own, in order to use a bit of counter-leverage, to push against the back of the CPS in order to ensure the tip of the CPS would remain against the surface of the component within the bell-housing, providing me with the very best chance to ensure that I might finally be able to walk away from this Jeep victoriously for once, since I began to try and fix it months ago.

In the end, I could hardly believe it... And while I am extatic about the fact that I have FINALLY managed to get this situation with my ZJ resolved, to such a degree that I can definitely go back to work, and not have to be scared to death that the Jeep might leave me stranded again, when I am supposed to be headed in to work, where I have always got a literal ton of other responsibilities to deal with once I reach whatever jobsite I am supposed to be working on any given day/date. That I don't need to be having to worry about my Jeep not getting me there too... Anyway, as I was saying, I am excited, and glad that my ZJ's issue seems to have been resolved! However, I would be telling a huge lie, if I didn't admit that I am also extremely pissed off about the fact that, in the end, this whole big huge mess, was ultimately caused by circumstances which could just as easily have been avoided from the get-go, had I been provided the same documentation along with the last NTK sensor I purchased weeks, or possibly even months ago now! Anyway... I realize that the name of the game here, seems to be that, guys make appearances here on the forum, mostly when they have problems with their Jeeps, and questions about what they might do to fix them. And they may very well continue to ask questions, and appear as regular forum visitors, for as long as their problem may persist. However, it is all too often the case, that immediately after finding the answer which enables them to resolve their problem, they suddenly become complete strangers to everyone around here again, and most unfortunately, in ghosting everyone the way they do, they also neglect to share with the rest of us, just what it was that wound up being such a huge help, or that ended up ultimately being their "problem solver" in the end... I did not want to be another one of "those guys". Especially not in this case, as it is only a fact, that there are others out there right now, who are experiencing the very same, or extremely similar problems with their own Jeeps. So I wanted to write this post, simply as a means of explaining what it was that came to be my own solution to this whole insanely crazy problem, at the end of the day. In hopes that it might help someone else to know what it was that helped me to resolve this issue in the end! Thanks for your time and consideration, to everyone who may have been involved with helping me along the way, in one way, or another. And GOOD LUCK, to anyone who checks out this post because they are experiencing a similar, or completely identical problem! I hope you are able to get your Jeep fixed up and running properly!

Root Moose

TLDR?

ijeeep

A.Thoroughly read the instruction sheet in the box.
2. If there is no instruction sheet in the box do not leave the store.
D. Ask for another one with instruction sheet in the box.

ijeeep

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By chance are you planning to determine the thickness of the card stock and adhesive as an encore ?