Gothere

Hi All,
Just wanted to pass along some info on this subject. I've seen some other threads talking about it and thought it maybe useful for some. I also wanted to give some background on the vehicle and what I'm planning to do to fix it, and lastly ask for some advice on the fix for this.

While driving on the freeway yesterday, thankfully I was at slower speeds (around 60), out of the blue the WJ started death wobble. I hit a couple of smaller bumps and could feel the feedback in the steering wheel start to build, I've noticed this feedback before but it only lasted for 1-2 seconds then it stopped, this time I could tell the feedback was building up. I immediately stared to slow the vehicle using moderated braking, I did have to slow to under 15 in-order to stop the shaking, drove it another 25 miles without any other incident. This was my first encounter ever with this so I'm not sure how to classify it, to me it seemed moderate since I was able to keep the car under positive control.

This is a new to me vehicle, bought it a few months back. PO said it had a factory installed lift, but while looking at it, it was evident the lift was just a 2" BB (looks like just a spacer under the coils). Vehicle has never rode nice, a lot of body roll, and moans coming from the suspension. Also I've noticed a lot of feedback on the steering wheel, such as whenever I hit a bump (large or small) I can feel a shimmy in the steering wheel. BTW it still has the stock wheels and tire size on it (planning to upgrade these later). The shimmy feels like the front wheels vibrate side to side then settle down and track normally. This usually only lasts 1-2 seconds.

I'm hoping to get this fixed by pulling off that terrible lift, I've been wanting to upgrade to a better 4" lift anyway, so I just ordered the IRO 4" critical path lift. Hoping that will help to fix this in part by getting rid of a crappy lift that quite possibly is helping to induce this wobble. I'm sure when they installed this lift it threw the other components out of whack. Additionally I'm thinking that an upgraded steering stabilizer would help. After this not really sure what else? Any suggestions would be great...

Thanks

dave1123

First to all, there is no such thing as a "factor lift!" Well, there is, but it's called the Upcountry Suspension which is a coil spring upgrade with all the necessary other things, like longer shocks and swap bar links.

Second, a steering damper will NOT help or cure death wobble. The steering damper is designed to eliminate "bump steer", which is the tenancy to change direction when hitting a bump with one front wheel in a turn. You have to look at all the other components in the suspension, like ball joints, hub bearings, control arm and track bar bushings, all steering rod ends and the box itself. Ever tire balance plays a part. Tire balance will exacerbate any looseness in the other components at about 40-45 mph. Loose ball joints are usually stable until you hit a bump at high speed. Loose tierods can build until it becomes uncontrollable at any speed. This is just a ballpark assessment and shouldn't be used as gospel.

Gothere

I'm leaning to the ball joints being bad, with the BB adding to the situation. Reason being is that when ever I do hit a bump I can feel the feedback up through the steering colum.

dave1123

The lower joints take all the load and shock and are not greasable because there's no room for a fitting. The upper ones have a spring-loaded compensator in them and are greasable. A good way to tell if the lower ones are bad is there should be a small gap between the spindle carrier and the axle horn. If not, the ball has worn the cushion out. Mine were so bad it was squeaking when you turned the wheels while sitting still. The spindle carrier was resting directly on the axle horn. I'm sorry, the other way around.

Gothere

Sounds like a common and often problem with these heaps, looks like I will be replacing these ball joints. I looked at a couple of youtube vids on this, looks like a pain somewhat to do. Looks like I will need a puller and a press, probably get these at the parts store as a rental? Any advice on pulling these, or other parts to do while I have it apart?


Also, looked at ball joints and they run the gammit, from cheapo ones all the way up to $250 for a complete set, are there really any differences in them? I do plan to lift the heap 4" and run larger tires (probably no bigger than 32-33" and 10.5 tires). I plan to use the vehicle to flat tow my YJ and as a camping vehicle that will see some moderate rock crawling at the most, if that makes any difference.

Gothere

While I'm on the subject, since I'm digging into this, I'm also thinking of upgrading the steering linkage, as with ball joints there are numerous ones out there, any recommendations, and would it be worth it or just window dressing? Again I will be using this as a camping rig that would see at most some moderate rock crawling in desert climate.

dave1123

Just my opinion, but I'd stick with Moog. They are good quality parts at a reasonable price and WERE all American made. I bought greasable lowers for a 2wd jeep because I wanted to shoot them real good the first time so hopefully they'd last a little longer. I had to take the fittings out to put the axles in, but hey, they got greased! Those were made in the UK.

Same for the steering ends. If you can ****** the steering linkage from a V8 jeep, they are a little heavier.

Moog has supplied suspension parts to NASCAR for 50 years.

Gothere

Just an update. Pulled the old lift off the WJ, it was a BB, replaced it with the Iron Rock Offroad critical path short arm 4" kit and added the rear upper and lower arms, articulation is great BTW.

Kit came with a new front track bar.

Drove it to test the setup, got the vehicle up to about 60 and could start to feel the front end start to shimmy so I backed off. (road did have some bumps).

I didn't think the new lift would fix it but was hoping that the new track bar might?

So now a few questions,
What are the components that contribute to wobble? Track Bar, tie rod ends, ball joints and ???
I've heard some people say track bar is 99% of the time the issue, what do most everyone else say?
Lift came with an adjustable track bar, could the track bar be adjusted incorrectly and causing wobble?
Also on the lift on drivers side it came with a iron y, lower conrtol arm with a bar that adjusts caster and camber. As far as this goes, drive line angles and vibrations are good, but I could have that setup wrong as well.

Thx for any advice input.

Ben

4wheeldrivenewbie

steering box check that is there play in the pitman arm area

dave1123

The track bar's main purpose is to keep the axle centered sideways under the body. It should be adjusted so that the distance from the tire to the fender lip is the same on both sides when the jeep is parked. Any looseness in it's mounting can cause a side-to-side shake. The axle will move side-to-side when the suspension extends or compresses, but the track bar is designed to control it.

Worn steering linkage components will cause the tires to wobble around a vertical axis, as in turning right and left rapidly. The linkage on the WJ will cause the tires to change direction when the suspension flexes because the linkage rod from the steering box goes all the way over to the right wheel, then the 2 wheels are connected with one rod. If the steering wheel is straight before the lift, it will be off after it's lifted 4".

rgr4475

I run a 2" BB with no issue. My guess is that some of the worn out components that you replaced helped fix the issue. Hence the moans from the suspension. I don't believe the lift by itself caused the problems. The body roll is likely from the small factory rear sway bar. Upgrade to a 1" bar to help fix that, especially with the 4" lift. (Just be sure to disconnect the 1" bar if you are wheeling it and articulating a lot!)

Gothere

So I think I finally got a handle on this. measured the wheels and thier position, one side had a 7" space from wheel to fender, other side was at 6" indicating the track bar was not setup correct. Thanks Dave1123 for that tid bit of info.

Ran the vehicle over to an alingement shop, had them adjust the track bar to correctly fit while they did the alingement to IRO's specks, took it for a test drive and in progressive segments 50-55, 55-60, 60-65, 65-70, and up to 75, no wobble, no shake in the steering wheel, so hopefully the beast is dead.

Thanks all for your helpful insight,

xj_bill

My DW was caused by a wallowed out from LCA hole. I think the wallow was created because I was running short arms on 6" of lift, so much of the jounce input from the road was going through that joint into the CAs instead of up through the spring.

I fixed the wallowed out holes by welding on washers, and then upgraded to long arms which I really needed anyway at that lift height.

JoeB11

same issue. I replaced my track bar but i am still experiencing the death wobble!