Project Cheap! (yeah right).
06-21-2014, 03:09 AM
#32
No, I don't lick fish.
hmmmmm.... out of all those pics... only one loaded.
About your rear seat. Were those headrests standard or did you modify the seat to accept them?
About your rear seat. Were those headrests standard or did you modify the seat to accept them?
06-21-2014, 10:48 AM
#33
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
Oops,there was only meant to be one pic. I'll sort it out when I'm on my pc.
The headrests were standard for England. I think on all trim levels, not just the limited.
The headrests were standard for England. I think on all trim levels, not just the limited.
06-24-2014, 01:00 AM
#34
No, I don't lick fish.
That's pretty cool. Kinda wish they were standard here. Makes me feel a little better when my kids ride along.
07-04-2014, 05:00 AM
#35
Member
You've been busy with this thing! I'm glad to see it being kept on the road though... I've been without mine for 3 weeks now, hopefully getting it back this weekend!
Where in the UK are you?
Where in the UK are you?
07-31-2014, 03:48 AM
#36
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
I'm in Yorkshire 
Right.. time to get serious.
The Jeep has been misbehaving, and you can get 0% interest rate credit cards. I can see only one sensible solution here but instead of doing that I'm going to spend money I don't have on the Jeep that I do.
Basically thinking out loud here. I need to fix the following.
1. Popping/misfire on petrol just before switching to LPG. I have a theory that the LPG injectors may well be leaking. All is fine when the LPG system is off and the valve is shut on the LPG tank but you can hear it clunk when the LPG system detects sufficient coolant temp and is getting ready to take over from petrol.
2. HORRIFIC mileage. I'm getting about 12 UK (10 US) miles per gallon on LPG. Even allowing for the 10% drop you'd expect on LPG that's grim. When I first had the Jeep it was getting nearly double that mileage. Fuel trims are maxxed out rich so I'm suspecting an O2 or a exhaust manifold leak, or something like that.
3. Strange new thumping when going over bumps. I'm hoping it's drop links, but it feels like it's a bit closer to the transmission tunnel. Could be transmission mounts? Time to get a breaker bar under the heap and see what wobbles.
4. Damn O-rings on the oil filter housing. I've got them, but couldn't get the OFA off last time I changed the oil. It's not a big thing, but it's on the list.
5. Vacuum leak that means I can sometimes run air through the dashboard vents, or sometimes use cruise control - but not reliably and never both at the same time.
6. Aircon clutch. It whines. It's getting louder. I hate it. When the aircon kicks on, it shuts up but it only stays on for a few seconds before kicking out again. I'll start with a pressure test. If the system holds pressure and the compressor works I'll just change the clutch. Otherwise it's going to get pricey.
7. Blower motor only works on 4. I'm guessing this is a resistor pack, this is so new I haven't even googled it yet.
8. New front speakers. The OEM Infinitis now produce sounds after my soldering marathon a few weeks back. Sadly most of the noise is a farting rumble if you attempt to play anything with a hint of bass.
9. I should probably get the rear brakes stripped and cleaned. I can do disks and pads OK and the fronts are great now, but I still get that judder when I come to a halt.
So, the card is fresh and in my wallet. It has a £5500 limit and 15months of 0% available. If I spend that much it will end in misery and divorce. I reckon that if I aim to pay off the card before it starts costing me interest I can afford a budget of £2000. Let's see how much I go over budget. Let's see if I can resist shiny parts from the USA!
Morat, soon to be in debtors prison.
Right.. time to get serious.
The Jeep has been misbehaving, and you can get 0% interest rate credit cards. I can see only one sensible solution here but instead of doing that I'm going to spend money I don't have on the Jeep that I do.
Basically thinking out loud here. I need to fix the following.
1. Popping/misfire on petrol just before switching to LPG. I have a theory that the LPG injectors may well be leaking. All is fine when the LPG system is off and the valve is shut on the LPG tank but you can hear it clunk when the LPG system detects sufficient coolant temp and is getting ready to take over from petrol.
2. HORRIFIC mileage. I'm getting about 12 UK (10 US) miles per gallon on LPG. Even allowing for the 10% drop you'd expect on LPG that's grim. When I first had the Jeep it was getting nearly double that mileage. Fuel trims are maxxed out rich so I'm suspecting an O2 or a exhaust manifold leak, or something like that.
3. Strange new thumping when going over bumps. I'm hoping it's drop links, but it feels like it's a bit closer to the transmission tunnel. Could be transmission mounts? Time to get a breaker bar under the heap and see what wobbles.
4. Damn O-rings on the oil filter housing. I've got them, but couldn't get the OFA off last time I changed the oil. It's not a big thing, but it's on the list.
5. Vacuum leak that means I can sometimes run air through the dashboard vents, or sometimes use cruise control - but not reliably and never both at the same time.
6. Aircon clutch. It whines. It's getting louder. I hate it. When the aircon kicks on, it shuts up but it only stays on for a few seconds before kicking out again. I'll start with a pressure test. If the system holds pressure and the compressor works I'll just change the clutch. Otherwise it's going to get pricey.
7. Blower motor only works on 4. I'm guessing this is a resistor pack, this is so new I haven't even googled it yet.
8. New front speakers. The OEM Infinitis now produce sounds after my soldering marathon a few weeks back. Sadly most of the noise is a farting rumble if you attempt to play anything with a hint of bass.
9. I should probably get the rear brakes stripped and cleaned. I can do disks and pads OK and the fronts are great now, but I still get that judder when I come to a halt.
So, the card is fresh and in my wallet. It has a £5500 limit and 15months of 0% available. If I spend that much it will end in misery and divorce. I reckon that if I aim to pay off the card before it starts costing me interest I can afford a budget of £2000. Let's see how much I go over budget. Let's see if I can resist shiny parts from the USA!
Morat, soon to be in debtors prison.
07-31-2014, 08:57 AM
#37
Member
Awesome, good luck with it all!
My MPG has been worse than normal lately too, getting between 12-16 (on petrol). The Jeep is also behaving a bit strangely, with an inconsistent idle when cruising so I'm guessing a sensor somewhere is on its way out.
Watch out with the front speakers - I've read that the standard Infinitys are 2 ohm rather than the usual 4, and for some reason replacement speakers will be lacking in bass. I'm not sure what the recommended route to take is though...
As for rear brakes, I rebuilt mine a few weeks ago. I'm not great with working on the Jeep myself, but apart from rounded wheel cylinder bolts I'd say it's a cakewalk! I also now have a perfect handbrake...
My MPG has been worse than normal lately too, getting between 12-16 (on petrol). The Jeep is also behaving a bit strangely, with an inconsistent idle when cruising so I'm guessing a sensor somewhere is on its way out.
Watch out with the front speakers - I've read that the standard Infinitys are 2 ohm rather than the usual 4, and for some reason replacement speakers will be lacking in bass. I'm not sure what the recommended route to take is though...
As for rear brakes, I rebuilt mine a few weeks ago. I'm not great with working on the Jeep myself, but apart from rounded wheel cylinder bolts I'd say it's a cakewalk! I also now have a perfect handbrake...
08-01-2014, 06:03 AM
#38
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
I've been reading up on the speakers, and 2ohm are available. I think the issue with bass is something to do with crossovers - there doesn't seem to be one on the stock wiring beyond a simple capacitor. I hope that if I get a set of Infiniti Kappa 2ohm components and find a place for the crossover then it'll work OK. As far as I can tell the 4 front speakers are run from just the two L and R channels so if I replace all the speakers at once I can't see what could possibly go wrong. HAH
08-01-2014, 12:26 PM
#39
Member
Cool - I'll be very interested to hear how it goes, because if you manage to retain the bass then I'll want to do the exact same!
08-04-2014, 05:21 AM
#40
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
OK, the first results are in!
1. Garage charges £38 an hour. Could be better, could be a lot worse.
2. Compression 110psi average across all cylinders - no big variations. I said that sounds a little low, he said it was average. He has tested a lot more Jeep with that tool than I've ever seen so... fair enough.
3. Vacuum leak fixed!! The idiots who fitted the LPG conversion never re-connected the vacuum pipe to the head. Sorted. The vents now work correctly, but the cruise control is still not working. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
Next up - checking the O2 sensor to see if it's the cause of the "wicked misfire". I suspect I'll end up with a new exhaust manifold but let's go with the O2 first.
1. Garage charges £38 an hour. Could be better, could be a lot worse.
2. Compression 110psi average across all cylinders - no big variations. I said that sounds a little low, he said it was average. He has tested a lot more Jeep with that tool than I've ever seen so... fair enough.
3. Vacuum leak fixed!! The idiots who fitted the LPG conversion never re-connected the vacuum pipe to the head. Sorted. The vents now work correctly, but the cruise control is still not working. 2 steps forward, 1 back.
Next up - checking the O2 sensor to see if it's the cause of the "wicked misfire". I suspect I'll end up with a new exhaust manifold but let's go with the O2 first.
08-09-2014, 10:17 AM
#41
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
Picked her up today and YES! very pleased
So, working through the tick list....
1. Popping/misfire on petrol just before switching to LPG.
LPG is next up!
2. HORRIFIC mileage.
Two new O2 sensors fitted, need to see if they've done the job. Idle is vastly improved to start with.
3. Strange new thumping when going over bumps.
New droplinks fitted. Not sure - seemed fine on the smoother roads over by the garage but near home where the surfaces get replaced every 150 years I'm not so sure that all the clonks have gone.
4. Damn O-rings on the oil filter housing. I've got them, but couldn't get the OFA off last time I changed the oil. It's not a big thing, but it's on the list.
Not addressed yet.
5. Vacuum leak.
Fixed - I have vents that work and Cruise Control is back! Awesome This was the easy one, the vacuum connection at the cylinder head was disconnected by the LPG installers. Looks like it has been that way for 10 years!!
6. Aircon clutch.
OH yeah - took a punt on a new compressor from ebay. It bolted up and works! The squeal is gone, and with a bit of gas the aircon now works. It does need a bit more gas, but the Jeep is now comfortable in summer. Result.
7. Blower motor only works on 4.
Fixed - new resistor pack.
8. New front speakers.
Not addressed yet.
9. I should probably get the rear brakes stripped and cleaned.
Done - what a difference. Firm pedal, no slop and good braking. Turns out those rear brakes do actually help slow you down after all....
I haven't got the CC statement yet but from memory
Aircon compressor £275
Other parts and Labout £830
Running Total £1105 inc
I'm pleased with the progress, budget may be in danger especially when I got a quote for a 1.5" OME lift which is sorely tempting
Mileage now 141k
edit: I definitely need a new fuel pump! Now that the front end is quiet (what a transformation) I can hear the fuel pump grinding away from the back. It's irritating, but more importantly it's bound to fail soon and possibly leave me stuck. I need to drop both fuel tanks to get to it so it'll be done at the LPG place, and it makes it much more likely I'll get a new LPG tank. They're meant to be re-certified after 10 years and it's cheaper to buy a new one than test.
So, working through the tick list....
1. Popping/misfire on petrol just before switching to LPG.
LPG is next up!
2. HORRIFIC mileage.
Two new O2 sensors fitted, need to see if they've done the job. Idle is vastly improved to start with.
3. Strange new thumping when going over bumps.
New droplinks fitted. Not sure - seemed fine on the smoother roads over by the garage but near home where the surfaces get replaced every 150 years I'm not so sure that all the clonks have gone.
4. Damn O-rings on the oil filter housing. I've got them, but couldn't get the OFA off last time I changed the oil. It's not a big thing, but it's on the list.
Not addressed yet.
5. Vacuum leak.
Fixed - I have vents that work and Cruise Control is back! Awesome
This was the easy one, the vacuum connection at the cylinder head was disconnected by the LPG installers. Looks like it has been that way for 10 years!!6. Aircon clutch.
OH yeah - took a punt on a new compressor from ebay. It bolted up and works! The squeal is gone, and with a bit of gas the aircon now works. It does need a bit more gas, but the Jeep is now comfortable in summer. Result.
7. Blower motor only works on 4.
Fixed - new resistor pack.
8. New front speakers.
Not addressed yet.
9. I should probably get the rear brakes stripped and cleaned.
Done - what a difference. Firm pedal, no slop and good braking. Turns out those rear brakes do actually help slow you down after all....
I haven't got the CC statement yet but from memory
Aircon compressor £275
Other parts and Labout £830
Running Total £1105 inc
I'm pleased with the progress, budget may be in danger especially when I got a quote for a 1.5" OME lift which is sorely tempting
Mileage now 141k
edit: I definitely need a new fuel pump! Now that the front end is quiet (what a transformation) I can hear the fuel pump grinding away from the back. It's irritating, but more importantly it's bound to fail soon and possibly leave me stuck. I need to drop both fuel tanks to get to it so it'll be done at the LPG place, and it makes it much more likely I'll get a new LPG tank. They're meant to be re-certified after 10 years and it's cheaper to buy a new one than test.
Last edited by Morat; 08-09-2014 at 12:03 PM.
09-15-2014, 04:37 AM
#42
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
Well would you believe it...
I had the Jeep all booked in with our LPG guru to have the fuel pump changed. That may seem odd but the LPG people are far more familiar with the modified tanks/fuel system of a converted Jeep so I wanted them to do the pump change. So I want them to address.
1. Poor running on Petrol - fit new fuel pump module
2. Check out the leak on the petrol tank - probably the gasket round the pump which was almost certainly the original one refitted by the cowboys who did the conversion.
3. Check the LPG tank. It is now 10 years old and being pressure vessels they should be re-certified at that age if you're being strict. Since this one is hanging underneath it has some rust. On the upside, they're cheap to replace if you're already removing them to put in a new petrol pump.
Assuming 1-3 went OK and didn't result in replacing two fuel tanks and all relevant fittings/pipes/widgets
4. Fit replacement LPG injectors and re-map for LPG running. Cheap has a misfire at low revs/medium throttle which makes it bog unless you kickdown. Also the injectors are installed in the wrong orientation so any tar-like "heavy ends" are gumming up the injectors instead of being fired straight into the cylinder to be burnt.
5. Move the gas injector pipes closed to the inlet valves. To make for clean running and good control of the fuel/air mix you're meant to spray the LPG as direct from the injectors to the inlet valve as possible. My injectors have about a 6" pipe to the inlet manifold and they are let into the manifold another 4" from the valve - this is too long especially at idle.
6. Poke around and let me know what else is broken.
So, I started up drove to work where I had left the parcel with the pump in it. Got back into the Jeep and nada. No power to the LPG system at all. So I tried to drop it off at the LPG place using petrol power but of course the pump is dying and I didn't quite make it. Luckily I got to 11 miles away and my breakdown cover that came with my car insurance got me to the destination on the back of a low loader.
So all the stuff above is a bit obsolete. I'd rather ask them to fit a new LPG system than ask them to fix someone else's shoddy work. They're booked up (all the best places are) so they're going to get the Petrol side of things working first and then we'll go from there.
Looks like the lift and lockers budget just evaporated!
I had the Jeep all booked in with our LPG guru to have the fuel pump changed. That may seem odd but the LPG people are far more familiar with the modified tanks/fuel system of a converted Jeep so I wanted them to do the pump change. So I want them to address.
1. Poor running on Petrol - fit new fuel pump module
2. Check out the leak on the petrol tank - probably the gasket round the pump which was almost certainly the original one refitted by the cowboys who did the conversion.
3. Check the LPG tank. It is now 10 years old and being pressure vessels they should be re-certified at that age if you're being strict. Since this one is hanging underneath it has some rust. On the upside, they're cheap to replace if you're already removing them to put in a new petrol pump.
Assuming 1-3 went OK and didn't result in replacing two fuel tanks and all relevant fittings/pipes/widgets
4. Fit replacement LPG injectors and re-map for LPG running. Cheap has a misfire at low revs/medium throttle which makes it bog unless you kickdown. Also the injectors are installed in the wrong orientation so any tar-like "heavy ends" are gumming up the injectors instead of being fired straight into the cylinder to be burnt.
5. Move the gas injector pipes closed to the inlet valves. To make for clean running and good control of the fuel/air mix you're meant to spray the LPG as direct from the injectors to the inlet valve as possible. My injectors have about a 6" pipe to the inlet manifold and they are let into the manifold another 4" from the valve - this is too long especially at idle.
6. Poke around and let me know what else is broken.
So, I started up drove to work where I had left the parcel with the pump in it. Got back into the Jeep and nada. No power to the LPG system at all. So I tried to drop it off at the LPG place using petrol power but of course the pump is dying and I didn't quite make it. Luckily I got to 11 miles away and my breakdown cover that came with my car insurance got me to the destination on the back of a low loader.
So all the stuff above is a bit obsolete. I'd rather ask them to fit a new LPG system than ask them to fix someone else's shoddy work. They're booked up (all the best places are) so they're going to get the Petrol side of things working first and then we'll go from there.
Looks like the lift and lockers budget just evaporated!
09-15-2014, 10:41 AM
#43
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
Hmm, the first report...
Someone has already tried to swap the fuel pump by hacking a hole in the floor. The fuel pump is dead, and the leak is due to the fuel pump being held in by three bodged bolts, of which only two are still there!
Nightmare. The gas tank is the wrong size and wedged in by rubber blocks.
New combo LPG/Petrol tank ordered from Tinley Tech £662.01
ouch!
Someone has already tried to swap the fuel pump by hacking a hole in the floor. The fuel pump is dead, and the leak is due to the fuel pump being held in by three bodged bolts, of which only two are still there!
Nightmare. The gas tank is the wrong size and wedged in by rubber blocks.
New combo LPG/Petrol tank ordered from Tinley Tech £662.01
ouch!
09-18-2014, 04:57 AM
#44
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
Some progress!
The LPG guys have hacked out the old tanks. I'm quite disappointed that some PO decided to hack a hole in the boot rather than do the job properly. Also, the LPG guys don't weld (for obvious reasons) so there will be a replacement plate but it will just be pop riveted and siliconed in place. I guess that's a step up from just putting the carpet back over the hole. No wonder the fuel pump sounded loud!
The other reason was the fuel tank was full of crud, mud and rust so the fuel pump had no chance. It probably wasn't even that old.
Old hole - sorry about the photo. My phone decided that it didn't like taking this shot.
Here are the nice shiny new tanks! The square one is the replacement petrol tank, made of steel and powdercoated. Nice. 39l capacity (10.3 US Gal) and the cylinder is for the LPG. It's a 70 litre tank which gives a usable volume of 14.7 US Gal once you multiply by 0.8 to allow for the 20% margin. The regulations are that you should only use 80% of the available volume to account for thermal expansion. The tank fillers shut off automatically at that level. It's a four hole tank which should give faster fills than the cheaper single hole tank, although it probably won't make much difference on what is just a mid size tank. But why not! The difference won't mean much on this bill! (I am starting to regret the name of this build!)
And just for a bonus, the new kit comes with quite a beefy looking tank skid. Looks like about 3/16 or 1/8 inch steel. I wasn't expecting that - it just comes with the kit!
Finally, the LPG guys are going to schultz the new tanks and the installation to give them a better chance of lasting longer than the old ones. Once all that is in place, the poor old Cheap should be happy to run on Petrol and we'll see how much of the LPG set-up needs to be changed at the front to keep it all sweet.
The LPG guys have hacked out the old tanks. I'm quite disappointed that some PO decided to hack a hole in the boot rather than do the job properly. Also, the LPG guys don't weld (for obvious reasons) so there will be a replacement plate but it will just be pop riveted and siliconed in place. I guess that's a step up from just putting the carpet back over the hole. No wonder the fuel pump sounded loud!
The other reason was the fuel tank was full of crud, mud and rust so the fuel pump had no chance. It probably wasn't even that old.
Old hole - sorry about the photo. My phone decided that it didn't like taking this shot.
Here are the nice shiny new tanks! The square one is the replacement petrol tank, made of steel and powdercoated. Nice. 39l capacity (10.3 US Gal) and the cylinder is for the LPG. It's a 70 litre tank which gives a usable volume of 14.7 US Gal once you multiply by 0.8 to allow for the 20% margin. The regulations are that you should only use 80% of the available volume to account for thermal expansion. The tank fillers shut off automatically at that level. It's a four hole tank which should give faster fills than the cheaper single hole tank, although it probably won't make much difference on what is just a mid size tank. But why not! The difference won't mean much on this bill! (I am starting to regret the name of this build!)
And just for a bonus, the new kit comes with quite a beefy looking tank skid. Looks like about 3/16 or 1/8 inch steel. I wasn't expecting that - it just comes with the kit!
Finally, the LPG guys are going to schultz the new tanks and the installation to give them a better chance of lasting longer than the old ones. Once all that is in place, the poor old Cheap should be happy to run on Petrol and we'll see how much of the LPG set-up needs to be changed at the front to keep it all sweet.
Last edited by Morat; 09-18-2014 at 05:34 AM.
09-25-2014, 06:11 AM
#45
CF Veteran
Thread Starter
AND she's back.
What a difference
Starts up without the "poor man's prime" and I can't hear the new pump. Smooth running on 6 cylinders, the idle is maybe a little lumpy still but vastly improved. I don't get the chugging, kick down is smooth and she pulls all the way round the dial. Plus a two year warranty, which is not something I'm used to!
New stuff
LPG cylinder at the front, new petrol (gas) tank at the rear with skid attached. A bit of Shultz and hopefully that'll stay in one piece for another 10 years.
What a difference
Starts up without the "poor man's prime" and I can't hear the new pump. Smooth running on 6 cylinders, the idle is maybe a little lumpy still but vastly improved. I don't get the chugging, kick down is smooth and she pulls all the way round the dial. Plus a two year warranty, which is not something I'm used to!
New stuff
LPG cylinder at the front, new petrol (gas) tank at the rear with skid attached. A bit of Shultz and hopefully that'll stay in one piece for another 10 years.
Last edited by Morat; 09-25-2014 at 06:13 AM. Reason: image gone!