Are two grade 8 motor mount bolts enough?
10-26-2012, 05:09 PM
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Year: 1995
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 HO
Are two grade 8 motor mount bolts enough?
I broke all 3 passenger side motor mounts bolts. I got the front two replaced but the back one looks like it has been broke for a long time. Hole is wallowed out and rusty, could not get the remaining piece of bolt out. Replaced the other two with grade 8 bolts. Anyone know if this will be strong enough?
10-26-2012, 10:07 PM
#3
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Year: 1990
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Here's why it happened courtesy of Jon Kelley aka 5-90. Might as well do the other side now that you know why they break.
From Jon Kelley aka 5-90 @ www.kelleyswip.com
This is a known issue.
1) Unless you're going to get silly with the skinny pedal, 2xSAE8 screws on one side won't be a huge problem. You'd be better off with three, but if you don't get silly you'll be okeh.
2) The Brown Dog engine mounts use two or three additional holes on each side, and spread the mount/clamping force over more of the block. This is invariably a good idea, and I'll probably be doing it as I refit my 88.
3) The primary reason that the screws snap is because, sometimes, the screw holes in the block aren't drilled & tapped deeply enough. This causes the screw to bottom out in the hole, so you end up torquing against the bottom of the hole instead of stretching the screw (as you're supposed to do. Not your fault - you aren't doing anything wrong.) The screw is not stretched properly, and the head is not butted up against the bracket, so there's some room to move there. Vibration then causes wear cycles on the screw, which generally leads to rupture.
The easy/cheap fix? When you replace the screws (3/8"-16x1.25", as I recall,) put two flat washers under the head before you screw it into the hole.
The check? Take a feeler gage (.003" to .005") and try to slide it under the head of the screw. You'll be able to get under the corners (look at the hex head, and you'll see that the surfaces curve toward each other slightly) if it's a standard hex head - if it's a flanged hex head, you should not be able to get under the head anywhere. If you can slip the gage under the head, you have a problem. If you can touch the shank of the screw, you have a big problem!
In no case should you reuse the screws after you take them out - they'll be stressed under the head, and you'll have a significant reduction in strength. Replace them outright, putting washers under the head as I mentioned before. The washers will make up for the slight lack of depth in the hole (two of them will be about 0.125" or so,) and allow the screw to be preloaded properly.
From Jon Kelley aka 5-90 @ www.kelleyswip.com
This is a known issue.
1) Unless you're going to get silly with the skinny pedal, 2xSAE8 screws on one side won't be a huge problem. You'd be better off with three, but if you don't get silly you'll be okeh.
2) The Brown Dog engine mounts use two or three additional holes on each side, and spread the mount/clamping force over more of the block. This is invariably a good idea, and I'll probably be doing it as I refit my 88.
3) The primary reason that the screws snap is because, sometimes, the screw holes in the block aren't drilled & tapped deeply enough. This causes the screw to bottom out in the hole, so you end up torquing against the bottom of the hole instead of stretching the screw (as you're supposed to do. Not your fault - you aren't doing anything wrong.) The screw is not stretched properly, and the head is not butted up against the bracket, so there's some room to move there. Vibration then causes wear cycles on the screw, which generally leads to rupture.
The easy/cheap fix? When you replace the screws (3/8"-16x1.25", as I recall,) put two flat washers under the head before you screw it into the hole.
The check? Take a feeler gage (.003" to .005") and try to slide it under the head of the screw. You'll be able to get under the corners (look at the hex head, and you'll see that the surfaces curve toward each other slightly) if it's a standard hex head - if it's a flanged hex head, you should not be able to get under the head anywhere. If you can slip the gage under the head, you have a problem. If you can touch the shank of the screw, you have a big problem!
In no case should you reuse the screws after you take them out - they'll be stressed under the head, and you'll have a significant reduction in strength. Replace them outright, putting washers under the head as I mentioned before. The washers will make up for the slight lack of depth in the hole (two of them will be about 0.125" or so,) and allow the screw to be preloaded properly.
10-26-2012, 10:38 PM
#4
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Year: 1995
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I replaced the driver side bolts today also. I had to use 3 washers with the 1.25 bolts but seems to be ok. I tried getting the third bolt out for hours with drill and easy outs. The thing looked like it had been mangled before I got a hold of it. Don't think it has been in for a long time . Would really like the peace of mind of having all three in just don't think I can get the third one.
10-26-2012, 10:58 PM
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Year: 1992
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Here's why it happened courtesy of Jon Kelley aka 5-90. Might as well do the other side now that you know why they break.
From Jon Kelley aka 5-90 @ www.kelleyswip.com
This is a known issue.
1) Unless you're going to get silly with the skinny pedal, 2xSAE8 screws on one side won't be a huge problem. You'd be better off with three, but if you don't get silly you'll be okeh.
2) The Brown Dog engine mounts use two or three additional holes on each side, and spread the mount/clamping force over more of the block. This is invariably a good idea, and I'll probably be doing it as I refit my 88.
3) The primary reason that the screws snap is because, sometimes, the screw holes in the block aren't drilled & tapped deeply enough. This causes the screw to bottom out in the hole, so you end up torquing against the bottom of the hole instead of stretching the screw (as you're supposed to do. Not your fault - you aren't doing anything wrong.) The screw is not stretched properly, and the head is not butted up against the bracket, so there's some room to move there. Vibration then causes wear cycles on the screw, which generally leads to rupture.
The easy/cheap fix? When you replace the screws (3/8"-16x1.25", as I recall,) put two flat washers under the head before you screw it into the hole.
The check? Take a feeler gage (.003" to .005") and try to slide it under the head of the screw. You'll be able to get under the corners (look at the hex head, and you'll see that the surfaces curve toward each other slightly) if it's a standard hex head - if it's a flanged hex head, you should not be able to get under the head anywhere. If you can slip the gage under the head, you have a problem. If you can touch the shank of the screw, you have a big problem!
In no case should you reuse the screws after you take them out - they'll be stressed under the head, and you'll have a significant reduction in strength. Replace them outright, putting washers under the head as I mentioned before. The washers will make up for the slight lack of depth in the hole (two of them will be about 0.125" or so,) and allow the screw to be preloaded properly.
From Jon Kelley aka 5-90 @ www.kelleyswip.com
This is a known issue.
1) Unless you're going to get silly with the skinny pedal, 2xSAE8 screws on one side won't be a huge problem. You'd be better off with three, but if you don't get silly you'll be okeh.
2) The Brown Dog engine mounts use two or three additional holes on each side, and spread the mount/clamping force over more of the block. This is invariably a good idea, and I'll probably be doing it as I refit my 88.
3) The primary reason that the screws snap is because, sometimes, the screw holes in the block aren't drilled & tapped deeply enough. This causes the screw to bottom out in the hole, so you end up torquing against the bottom of the hole instead of stretching the screw (as you're supposed to do. Not your fault - you aren't doing anything wrong.) The screw is not stretched properly, and the head is not butted up against the bracket, so there's some room to move there. Vibration then causes wear cycles on the screw, which generally leads to rupture.
The easy/cheap fix? When you replace the screws (3/8"-16x1.25", as I recall,) put two flat washers under the head before you screw it into the hole.
The check? Take a feeler gage (.003" to .005") and try to slide it under the head of the screw. You'll be able to get under the corners (look at the hex head, and you'll see that the surfaces curve toward each other slightly) if it's a standard hex head - if it's a flanged hex head, you should not be able to get under the head anywhere. If you can slip the gage under the head, you have a problem. If you can touch the shank of the screw, you have a big problem!
In no case should you reuse the screws after you take them out - they'll be stressed under the head, and you'll have a significant reduction in strength. Replace them outright, putting washers under the head as I mentioned before. The washers will make up for the slight lack of depth in the hole (two of them will be about 0.125" or so,) and allow the screw to be preloaded properly.
Those damn passenger side bolts break for a reason. If you replace the bolts with correct size or use a washer as stated you *should* be ok, I would check the remaining two after each offroad trip and with every oil change.
It really sucks when all three break...
10-27-2012, 10:19 AM
#6
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Year: 1990
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Brown Dog has some brackets that use other mounting holes. Might wanna check that out.
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