Sno_Blynd

i think my starter may have went out but im not sure. i turn the key to on. everything comes on. good battery reading. gas. lights come on. when i turn the key to start it my parking brake light comes on like normal but nothing happens. when i turn it i can hear the relay for the starter kick in but the starter never turns or engages. but if i leave the key in the on position and i go and touch the solenoid on the starter with a pair of pliers and touch the neg and pos wires with the pliers it will start right up.
so is that the starter gone bad or is it somthin else??
i wanna know before i start throwin parts at it.
thanks in advanced for the help.
-Sno_Blynd

krawlthis

do u have an auto trans? this happend with my 84 bronco. put it in neutral and try it. you might not have parked it fully.

Metmknice

Test your NSS (Neutral Safety Switch), a common issue. So first try it in neutral. Maybe shift it through the gears and back to park.

Sno_Blynd

done all that. its been doin it about a week now. every once in a while itll start fine. but most of the time i gotta use pliers. and yes its auto. ive tried it in neutral. cycled through the gears back to park and nothin. i havent been able to do anything about it because ive just started this new job and i dont get paid until midnight tonight.

ET JEEP

If you can jump the solenoid with pliers and it starts every time it is not your starter. I would suspect the NSS is acting intermittently so once in a while it does start. You comment about the starter relay is puzzling. If the NSS is bad you would not get the starter relay to activate.

When you turn the key to start, battery voltage goes thru the ignition switch to the starter relay. It goes thru the relay to the ground side thru the NSS to ground. Normally this is circuit goes thru pin 86 to pin 85 on the relay. This circuit activates the relay.

Once the relay is activated, pin 30, battery power, connects to pin 87 which goes to the solenoid. The starter then engages.

Test for battery voltage at the starter solenoid. Connect a voltmeter to the solenoid terminal, meter red lead, and meter black lead to a good engine ground. Have a helper turn the key to start. You should read battery voltage each time the key is held to start.

If no voltage you have a problem in the starting circuit. More testing is needed. The usual suspect is the NSS. If the NSS does not provide a path to ground in park or neutral, the circuit will not work and you get nothing when you turn the key to start.

If the starter relay is kicking in as you say, then the NSS is not the problem and you need to look at the relay. Try a similar relay and see if it works. Don't use the auto shutdown relay nor the fuel pump relay. Use something else.

Sno_Blynd

if the power weren't getting to the soleniod then wouldnt the pliers not kick the starter over?

and if that is the case and the NSS is bad then what do i need to do? how do i fix that?

bmp120

There are several posts about the NSS.

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f2/won...h-clean-13425/

In my case the starter worked like you described AND it came out clean when they tested it at the auto parts shop BUT when I went to move it around a bit it was loose. Replaced starter and all was good.

Sno_Blynd

ok my relay is fine because when everything is off and i try to turn the key i can hear the relay clicking.
so ima go and get a new starter and a new relay just to be sure.

ET JEEP

I sure would not buy a new starter right now. Have your starter checked at an auto electric shop. Did you test for voltage at the solenoid terminal?

The reason the pliers work is that you are by-passing the start circuit. The battery positive cable connects directly to the starter. With the pliers you are using that battery power to activated the starter solenoid.

When you use the key, the starter relay sends the battery power to the solenoid terminal. This is why you need to test for battery voltage at the solenoid terminal to determine what problem you have.

You may buy a new starter and still have a problem. I just hate to see money spent without a good troubleshoot. The fact that the starter works with the pliers makes me believe your starter is good.

Just my 2 cents.

Sno_Blynd

well what other way is there to test the NSS because i did the light thing where if the reverse lights come on the go off its your NSS thing and my lights stayed on. maybe the relay?

Sno_Blynd

anyone?

bmp120

It can still be your NSS ... as you move the shifter when you go to Park Or Neurtral. You can test the NSS with a Voltmeter .. The sucker can be off a millimeter and not work. It took me a while to ensure it was aligned.

By the way it is much better if you can use some piercing clamps with the multimeter versus shoving the leads into the wiring harness. If you have to pull the wiring harness down attach a string to it so it is easier to pull it back up to the engine compartment.

In other words,

Testing with out a voltmeter

1. Adjust NSS while car is in R to where backing lights come on.
2. No start or intermittent start - Goto step one and verify. Then adjust back or forward about .5 mm to 1 mm. Repeat.

With Voltmeter - I forget the values but you can see where the switch contacts. Turn voltmeter on high sensitivity then adjust slightly from there.

If this does not work. then clean the NSS. If that does not work replace the NSS.

This assumes it is not some other issue - relay, intermittent starter, bad wiring, karma, ...

Sno_Blynd

ive had enough karma for a while haha. the next thing i need is it attacking my jeep. and ill check those. thanks man