Hey I'm a rookie in training remember. LOL... Ok, I got a chance to inspect the tube. It was in 3 pieces. I had a little plastic hose from the MAP to a larger rubber hose back into another little plastic hose, then finally into a bigger rubber hose which connects to the TB. The little rubber plug inside looked a little beat up too. I have a good spark now by the way..

 

Oh, so it wasn't a spark issue after all, but a broken line to the MAP sensor? How's it run now?

 

Automotive ignition and fuel injection

Commonly used in distributors for ignition timing (and in some types of crank and camshaft position sensors for injection pulse timing, speed sensing, etc.) the Hall effect sensor is used as a direct replacement for the mechanical breaker points used in earlier automotive applications. Its use as an ignition timing device in various distributor types is as follows. A stationary permanent magnet and semiconductor Hall effect chip are mounted next to each other separated by an air gap, forming the Hall effect sensor. A metal rotor consisting of windows and tabs is mounted to a shaft and arranged so that during shaft rotation, the windows and tabs pass through the air gap between the permanent magnet and semiconductor Hall chip. This effectively shields and exposes the Hall chip to the permanent magnet's field respective to whether a tab or window is passing though the Hall sensor. For ignition timing purposes, the metal rotor will have a number of equal-sized tabs and windows matching the number of engine cylinders. This produces a uniform square wave output since the on/off (shielding and exposure) time is equal. This signal is used by the engine computer or ECU to control ignition timing. Many automotive Hall effect sensors have a built-in internal NPN transistor with an open collector and grounded emitter, meaning that rather than a voltage being produced at the Hall sensor signal output wire, the transistor is turned on providing a circuit to ground through the signal output wire.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hall_effect


Pete, I think he meant that the tube was still there, just lots of splices. Just make sure it's good Rob! Can you feel good vacuum if you pull the connector off the map is one thing....

 

Yea, it's spliced together, it looks good though and I am getting vacuum. I ran it today for about 30 minutes. Ran pretty good, rough idle. My son went to start it about 30 minutes later and it won't fire, I am smelling a very strong raw gas smell from the motor and underneath, maybe the cat? Just dumping fuel and won't light. I'm gunna have to buy you guys a case of beer and ship it to you.

 

It might have a split, or be plugged. I'm liking this! The few other times I needed to be a real pest it paid off..."looks?" See if you feel good vacuum when you pull the little deal off the MAP. Like I mentioned, when the MAP senses lower vacuum, it reports to the ECM to dump more fuel because that what happens when you have your foot in it.

OH, re reading I see you are saying it IS getting good vacuum. Good to be dead sure. I'd still focus on the MAP, If Pete agrees anyway. An easy test. The left hand, (drivers side) of the three wires on the MAP plug is a brown/white stripe. Mine shows .8 of an ohm to ground. What's yours?

 

""""The 5 volts to the CPS is simply a bias voltage."""

I guess I should have spelled it out clearer.

The 5 Volts DC voltage on the CPS IS A BIAS VOLTAGE. Look up bias voltage.

It creates a magnetic field the flywheel upsets (between that and the permanent magnet- making an AC pulse riding on the DC. It's always there cranking, running, or stopped, as long as the key is on.

Something important on the MAP line - it has to be the stiff plastic hose, not rubber hose. The rubber collapses under the vacuum, the plastic does not. The ends use rubber to make the connections o the nipples, but using rubber for the entire hose is asking for trouble.

The MAP working properly has absolutely nothing to do with the intensity of the spark.
It ran fine, then wouldn;t restart - of course you again checked the color of the spark.

Coils do that - intermittant!

The cam sensor in the distributor is a HALL EFFECT, not the CRANKSHAFT POSITION SENSOR.

 

Besides your observation that the over rich started when you changed the injectors, Radi also mentioned that one might be stuck. I haven't done it myself, but it is possible, (messy and dangerous). I guess you CAN pull the whole rail and watch what the ingectors are doing (on a piece or cardboard). I'd probably have a NEW type A,B,C fire extinguisher handy. (not in a garage). I do have a stethoscope somewhere in the barn. Should try listening to mine. Anyway, if you can rule out the MAP, maybe something there is your problem. Ruling out the MAP...I don't have a C-101. I know you cleaned it but still. Cruiser, could a bad contact there be it? There is an ECU pin-out in my Sig. (thanks to Radi). Me, I might want to see the map signal making it there.

OR? Even "open" the IAT or CTS, wouldn't do that, or could they?

 

Ok.. I have plenty of vacuum in that line.. I am getting a reading of .02 from that wire to ground. Brown/white wire- key off, meter set to ohms.

 

I did put a fuel pressure tester on it. If an injector was stuck open wouldn't it have a fast bleed down?

 

Yea, I suppose you are right there. One might still be getting CONSTANT power from the ECU when it's on, but that might be unlikely. (I'm learning too!)

OK, MAP ground is good. Until Cruiser or someone had a better Idea I'm still thinking the map..it's self or it's connection to the ECU. BUT. Try it with the 02 sensor unplugged. I suggest that because my Jeep ran pretty much OK with the 02 not grounding the 5v sensor feed at all. If yours is grounding that, that might be a problem. Idk, something easy to try to rule that out. (and double check the wiring to it down there).

Besides this info> http://www.lunghd.com/Tech_Articles/...iagnostics.htm There is another test of the MAP function involving using an Analogue meter and watching the needle sweep as the vacuum to the map increases/decreases. Not saying you need to go there...some the voltage tests in the link might come first.

The "supply voltage", opposite the ground should be about 5. The articke mentions "4-5 at a hot idle", for the middle...that would be "back probing i think, and maybe gibberish on a digital meter.

Anyway it will help Cruiser, (or anyone) if you...try it with the 02 sensor unplugged, (inspect those wires up to to injector harness for grounding), AND, verify the 5V feed from the ECU to the Pass side pin on the MAP connector, (ign on).

 

I found the nearest handy piece of tube/pipe I could lay hands on. I found that I can hear a clear tick from each of all six injectors at idle. I'd bet a two foot piece of 1/2in. pvc would be better, but none the less, they all tick. (like an Singer Sewing machine.....on slow)

 

Looking at the ECU pins...#16 is the 5V feed to BOTH the MAP and TPS.

It shows #17 is the MAP ground? (surprise to me)

And #33 is where the middle sensor wire is suppose to have made through the C-101 to give the ECU the critical info.

Just sharing!

 

I can't believe this! 132 posts and the obvious is missed!

Why does everyone think it's rich?

If you pour a cup of fuel on the ground, but don't light it, does that mean the ground is oversaturated with fuel? (rich)

If ignition is too weak to light it on fire, does that make the air/fuel ratio too rich? - or just unburned?

 

OK Rob, been doing a little homework. First I have some stuff to learn on the ECU pins. D3 would be the ground, (for what that's worth), C14 would be the 5V feed to the MAP, and the one that might turn out of interest is C6, the sensor input to the ECM. That is just details of what would be involved if the MAP signal IS an issue. Anyway I hope you can check for that 5V on the right/passenger side of the connector. That just might help.

Leaning away from the 02 being a issue. " As titania is an N-type semiconductor with a structure TiO2-x, the x defects in the crystal lattice conduct the charge. So, for fuel-rich exhaust (lower oxygen concentration) the resistance is low, and for fuel-lean exhaust (higher oxygen concentration) the resistance is high." All THAT says, is that if it were shorted to ground it would signal to the ECU it's RICH. (so it would correct to the lean side) Idk. Being "open" might signal it to enrichen the mix, but not so much as you describe, at least mine didn't do that when it was "open". (you CAN just unplug it, it will run OK without it)

Btw...what does the air filter element look like? If there is any question try it without it, (as long as there are not any jerbles or anything in there.)

Was me I'd make sure it wasn't some issue with the MAP and go from there, and .03 on the CPS? Bare minimum! Mine died shortly after getting that low...Just don't know what to say there. Maybe you got a bad one, or it's an issue with your meter.

 

On a Renix, it's not a cam sensor. It's a sync generator and is only responsible for the sequential firing of the injectors. Any Renix 4.0 will run fine with the distributor harness disconnected. Expect longer crank times. A failed sync generator is generally only found when scanning with a diagnostic tool while searching for something else.