Rough Idle - ONLY when started and engine is warm - WTF??
10-21-2009, 10:51 PM
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Year: 2001
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Rough Idle - ONLY when started and engine is warm - WTF??
Alright you saavy XJ folk, let's see if you can help me diagnose what the dealerships can't.
2001 Cherokee XJ 4x4, currently with 90K miles.
I'll go to start the Jeep, after having it sit for about 10 minutes from its last run, and sometimes it'll fire, but won't quickly idle where it should. It'll hang out in the very low rpm's until I step on the accelerator and force some gas/air through the engine. Mind you I'm still in "Park." Sometimes it'll do it so bad that I'll have to HOLD the accelerator down until the rpm's can get up enough to force whatever clog, or lag out - when it's this bad I'll generally get a "pop" sound, probably sounding similar to a car requiring premium gas, but has the low-grade in it.
When this occurs, it lasts no more than 10-15 seconds or so to clear it out and it runs normal, but it's incredibly annoying. Seems to do it more often when I'm starting it and the A/C is already engaged.
Dealership has put heat shield tape on plug #2 (or 3?), no improvements. Dealership has cleaned throttle body/tuned up/new plugs, no improvements. I've put heat shield on remaining plugs, no improvements. Lucus Oil fuel injection cleaner might work a little, but I think that's just mentally. Of course it starts perfectly each time I do take it to the dealership, so it's tough for them to pin-point.
So WTF? Anyone else have/had this issue? Been going on intermittently since I bought it a year ago. Thanks in advance!
2001 Cherokee XJ 4x4, currently with 90K miles.
I'll go to start the Jeep, after having it sit for about 10 minutes from its last run, and sometimes it'll fire, but won't quickly idle where it should. It'll hang out in the very low rpm's until I step on the accelerator and force some gas/air through the engine. Mind you I'm still in "Park." Sometimes it'll do it so bad that I'll have to HOLD the accelerator down until the rpm's can get up enough to force whatever clog, or lag out - when it's this bad I'll generally get a "pop" sound, probably sounding similar to a car requiring premium gas, but has the low-grade in it.
When this occurs, it lasts no more than 10-15 seconds or so to clear it out and it runs normal, but it's incredibly annoying. Seems to do it more often when I'm starting it and the A/C is already engaged.
Dealership has put heat shield tape on plug #2 (or 3?), no improvements. Dealership has cleaned throttle body/tuned up/new plugs, no improvements. I've put heat shield on remaining plugs, no improvements. Lucus Oil fuel injection cleaner might work a little, but I think that's just mentally. Of course it starts perfectly each time I do take it to the dealership, so it's tough for them to pin-point.
So WTF? Anyone else have/had this issue? Been going on intermittently since I bought it a year ago. Thanks in advance!
Last edited by CherokeeTribe; 10-21-2009 at 10:54 PM.
10-22-2009, 03:27 AM
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My old 87 does the opposite, It idles very high until I turn it off then back on a couple times. I have been told it is the IAC - Idle Air Control. I do not know much about Jeeps in general as I have only had mine for a while but it might cause your symptoms too. Another common answer on throttle/rpm issues is the TPS - throttle position sensor.
I am not really sure about the pop sound, that could be a clogged cat maybe?
Again I do not know for sure if this is what it might be on your 2001 Hopefully one of the more experienced members will jump in with a more solid answer.
Good Luck!
I am not really sure about the pop sound, that could be a clogged cat maybe?
Again I do not know for sure if this is what it might be on your 2001 Hopefully one of the more experienced members will jump in with a more solid answer.
Good Luck!
Last edited by NewXJaddict; 10-22-2009 at 03:30 AM.
10-22-2009, 03:44 AM
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Year: 1988 limited
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 litre
Alright you saavy XJ folk, let's see if you can help me diagnose what the dealerships can't.
2001 Cherokee XJ 4x4, currently with 90K miles.
I'll go to start the Jeep, after having it sit for about 10 minutes from its last run, and sometimes it'll fire, but won't quickly idle where it should. It'll hang out in the very low rpm's until I step on the accelerator and force some gas/air through the engine. Mind you I'm still in "Park." Sometimes it'll do it so bad that I'll have to HOLD the accelerator down until the rpm's can get up enough to force whatever clog, or lag out - when it's this bad I'll generally get a "pop" sound, probably sounding similar to a car requiring premium gas, but has the low-grade in it.
When this occurs, it lasts no more than 10-15 seconds or so to clear it out and it runs normal, but it's incredibly annoying. Seems to do it more often when I'm starting it and the A/C is already engaged.
Dealership has put heat shield tape on plug #2 (or 3?), no improvements. Dealership has cleaned throttle body/tuned up/new plugs, no improvements. I've put heat shield on remaining plugs, no improvements. Lucus Oil fuel injection cleaner might work a little, but I think that's just mentally. Of course it starts perfectly each time I do take it to the dealership, so it's tough for them to pin-point.
So WTF? Anyone else have/had this issue? Been going on intermittently since I bought it a year ago. Thanks in advance!
2001 Cherokee XJ 4x4, currently with 90K miles.
I'll go to start the Jeep, after having it sit for about 10 minutes from its last run, and sometimes it'll fire, but won't quickly idle where it should. It'll hang out in the very low rpm's until I step on the accelerator and force some gas/air through the engine. Mind you I'm still in "Park." Sometimes it'll do it so bad that I'll have to HOLD the accelerator down until the rpm's can get up enough to force whatever clog, or lag out - when it's this bad I'll generally get a "pop" sound, probably sounding similar to a car requiring premium gas, but has the low-grade in it.
When this occurs, it lasts no more than 10-15 seconds or so to clear it out and it runs normal, but it's incredibly annoying. Seems to do it more often when I'm starting it and the A/C is already engaged.
Dealership has put heat shield tape on plug #2 (or 3?), no improvements. Dealership has cleaned throttle body/tuned up/new plugs, no improvements. I've put heat shield on remaining plugs, no improvements. Lucus Oil fuel injection cleaner might work a little, but I think that's just mentally. Of course it starts perfectly each time I do take it to the dealership, so it's tough for them to pin-point.
So WTF? Anyone else have/had this issue? Been going on intermittently since I bought it a year ago. Thanks in advance!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Unive...rcraftQ5fParts
10-22-2009, 03:45 AM
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Year: 1988 limited
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0 litre
My old 87 does the opposite, It idles very high until I turn it off then back on a couple times. I have been told it is the IAC - Idle Air Control. I do not know much about Jeeps in general as I have only had mine for a while but it might cause your symptoms too. Another common answer on throttle/rpm issues is the TPS - throttle position sensor.
I am not really sure about the pop sound, that could be a clogged cat maybe?
Again I do not know for sure if this is what it might be on your 2001 Hopefully one of the more experienced members will jump in with a more solid answer.
Good Luck!
I am not really sure about the pop sound, that could be a clogged cat maybe?
Again I do not know for sure if this is what it might be on your 2001 Hopefully one of the more experienced members will jump in with a more solid answer.
Good Luck!
10-22-2009, 03:48 AM
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10-22-2009, 05:02 AM
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Does the check engine light come on??? There is a TSB out there for cyl 3 injector vapor locking after shutting off engine and then trying to restart after a short time... Dealer should have it on there computer. They should have insulated #3 injector to correct it... Mine does the same thing. I still didn't insulate the injector, I'm going to actually cut the hood and put hood vents in which should let all the heat out and hopefully solve my problem... if you do a search on here I'm sure you will find it.
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
10-22-2009, 05:10 AM
#7
Caracticus Potts The Mod
Follow through on what Fantic said.....You need to put a fuel pressure gauge on that engine and see what your actual fuel pressure is when this problem occurs. The check valve is located in the tank with the pump and this could be your problem. Also, check that tank pressure is not to high....if you remove the gas cap and get a big hiss or puff of gas fumes your vabor canister is plugged and this can cause hard hot soak starts.
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10-22-2009, 06:43 AM
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Does the check engine light come on??? There is a TSB out there for cyl 3 injector vapor locking after shutting off engine and then trying to restart after a short time... Dealer should have it on there computer. They should have insulated #3 injector to correct it... Mine does the same thing. I still didn't insulate the injector, I'm going to actually cut the hood and put hood vents in which should let all the heat out and hopefully solve my problem... if you do a search on here I'm sure you will find it.
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
Nope, never a check engine light. And yeah, that diagnosis is what the dealership performed the first time I took it in - the heat shield... didn't cure the problem unfortunately.
10-22-2009, 08:02 AM
#9
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I second what frantic238 and Willys55 say. Put a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what you have. It should read normal fuel pressure. To check the check valve, pressurize the system and turn pump off. Look at pressure gauge and see if it bleeds down.
The pop you hear may be an intake backfire due to a lean mixture; lack of fuel too much air.
The pop you hear may be an intake backfire due to a lean mixture; lack of fuel too much air.
10-22-2009, 08:38 AM
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Does the check engine light come on??? There is a TSB out there for cyl 3 injector vapor locking after shutting off engine and then trying to restart after a short time... Dealer should have it on there computer. They should have insulated #3 injector to correct it... Mine does the same thing. I still didn't insulate the injector, I'm going to actually cut the hood and put hood vents in which should let all the heat out and hopefully solve my problem... if you do a search on here I'm sure you will find it.
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
pulled this from an automotive forum:\
1803103 - 4.0L ROUGH ENGINE IDLE AFTER RESTART FOLLOWING A HOT SOAK
Date: 09/05/03 (supercedes 1802702 dated 09/06/02)
Model Year(s): 1999-2004
Description: NOTE: This bulletin applies to vehicles equipped with a 4.0L engine. This bulletin involves the installation of a fuel injector insulator sleeve.
Details: Customers may describe a 20 to 30 second rough idle following the restart of a heat soaked engine. This condition may be most noticeable when the engine is restarted following a prior 10 to 20 minute heat soak in hot ambient conditions of approximately 32 C (90ºF) or higher. This condition may be consistent with short city stop-and-go driving trips and can be aggravated by the use of fuel with a high ethanol content. Depending upon various conditions a MIL may occur due to DTC P0303 - Cylinder #3 Misfire.
This condition may be caused by heat from the exhaust manifold that following engine shut down migrates to the area around injector #3 and causes fuel vapor to form within the injector. This in turn may cause a momentary misfire of cylinder #3 until the fuel vapor is cleared of injector #3. The insulator sleeve lowers the injector #3 temperature to a point below which the fuel will not normally vaporize.
If vehicle exhibits a rough idle, and if a misfire of cylinder #3 is observed following a 10 to 20 minute hot soak, perform the Repair Procedure.
Parts required:
56028371AA Ignition Wire Shield
Repair procedure:
1. Cut insulator sleeve, p/n 56028371AA, to make two (2) insulator sleeves about 25-30 mm (1 in.) in length. See diagram.
2. Install one sleeve around injector #3, with the slit on the upward facing side of the injector. Install the other sleeve with the slit on the downward facing side of the injector.
3. Confirm sleeve is flush to intake manifold surface around injector.
4. Check injector #3 wire and ensure that the injector is rotated to a 2 o'clock position (from driver?s side of vehicle).
Interesting point about the hood. Do you think the "cowl" aftermarket hood for the XJ would achieve the same results?
10-22-2009, 09:21 AM
#11
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Ok seeing this thread makes me a little happy knowing my XJ isn't the only one with such problems...Anywhoo my problem is when I start the engine, it idles great...but if I immediately try moving it, my rpms go down low and it almost dies on me. If I wait a few minutes, 1 or 2 usually, before moving it, it moves fine. Mind you my clutch is going out (rebuilding tranny and T-case before replacing) but this seems more like a fuel problem to me. Also my exhaust "tip" is black and I've been told I'm running rich...but I've had a tune-up since then...if that offers any help. Also if I run up to roughly 3000 rpms before shifting (5spd) the check engine usually lights up. About 3 months ago I took it into the local Oreilleys and the hooked up their fancy little computer to it and it said I had a misfire on all cylinder...but again I've had a tune-up since then. Any help or suggestions is appreciated. I'm pretty good with things like this...but I'm not used to the Jeep engines, as I drove Ford Pick-ups most my life.
10-22-2009, 12:16 PM
#12
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However, these are my exact symptoms, and it's occurred much more frequently since I moved to Florida (explains the mention of higher climate temps). May have the dealership down here check the heat shield install from the previous dealership.
Interesting point about the hood. Do you think the "cowl" aftermarket hood for the XJ would achieve the same results?
Interesting point about the hood. Do you think the "cowl" aftermarket hood for the XJ would achieve the same results?
10-22-2009, 02:39 PM
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Well I pulled the IAC today, that was terrifying because of those stupid torx bits I got it clean(er) anyway that's as far as I got though, Found out that to remove the throttle body I need a BIG torx bit. So I revved it up some and sprayed some throttle body cleaner in there. I doubt it really did much though I really need to take it off and give it a really good cleaning. Its pretty darn dirty. That's a project for another day, when I have more money for a bigger torx bit and more carb cleaner.
One thing I noticed though. I saw some smoke burning from some over spray of pb blaster or carb cleaner....something...anyway It worried me for a second so I climbed under the front to see where it was coming from.
I found a metal exhaust looking tube that was completely open. Its coming off where the exhaust manifold is. Its just open...and about 2-3 inches long maybe 2 inches wide ....... Looks like it should be hooked up to something but I can't see what should go there and I can't get a camera in there to get a picture either.
any ideas what that is?
10-23-2009, 02:55 AM
#14
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Year: 1988 limited
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Engine: 4.0 litre
Don't mind for the pics.
That's your hot air conveyor for the winter cold starts. What is missing is one of those crappy carton flexible tubes that connects it to the intake by-pass on your air filter box, just behind the left headlight.
Typical "disappearance" on the older ckees...
That's your hot air conveyor for the winter cold starts. What is missing is one of those crappy carton flexible tubes that connects it to the intake by-pass on your air filter box, just behind the left headlight.
Typical "disappearance" on the older ckees...