What's up? My interest has been purely in the products/science. I don't follow the businessy stuff of the industry, but if you've got some info or rumors to share, I'm interested in hearing it.

 

That the Pennzoil stories are true. And it seems often that we get someone complaining about Jiffy Lube here on the site.

Reputation damage I guess.

 

Man, that Pennzoil crap is beyond true lol. Although I heard it was mainly the western state distributors that had the bad ****. I still would trust them. It's either rotella or mobil 1. Also like I said, I may change to Amsoil soon

 

I have been using the NAPA house brand for many years, oil and ATF. I have heard it is made by Valvoline.

 

It is and apparently its good stuff too

 

Lots of people do talk about zinc as the holy grail, tho that's changing as time goes on. As far as ZDDP, I saw a test where adding that to modern oil actually reduced the oil's capabilities. The theory was that the additive was interacting with the oil's package of additives negatively, basically a chemical incompatibility. The test seemed scientific and unbiased from what I recall.

I couldn't get past his 'testimonials' to read the article so I can't comment on his tests. The example of the overheated Camry was a joke. I've repaired dozens of overheated engines and not one suffered any lubrication related damage that I know of. Several of them were on standard walmart oil, a few on various synthetics, many of them I don't know about.

The only lubrication related engine failure I've known of was on a VW GTI on Amsoil's top of the line stuff. That oil was rated to go 25K intervals without UOAs and possibly longer with a good UOA. I wasn't tracking his mileage so there's a possibility he was exceeding it. When I did his oil changes the oil was opaque and there was increasing amount of gunk visible through the filler. I suggested he change it more often, his answer was "Amsoil says it's good for 25K". The engine failure was attributed to sludge which blocked the oil flow. After the expensive repair he switched to Mobil1 EP and is changing it more often. His expensive Amsoil air filter proved to be junk so it went in the trash and I installed a standard filter.

 

I've personally witnessed a few Jiffy lube screw ups that were pretty major. They crushed an oil filter trying to remove it then left it that way, it ruptured on his way home. Luckily he lived close to the place and saw the puddle in the morning before start-up. I replaced the filter and alto it was tough, I've had worse, they were just not willing to spend an extra couple minutes on it. Another was a stripped drain plug that was leaking badly. Luckily the oil puddle was obvious, actually about an 8' diameter puddle , so she didn't start it the next morning. The plug was free spinning in the pan so I'm sure the tech had to know there was something wrong there. They left the air filter out on another car after charging the guy for a new filter. It wasn't discovered 'till much later and too late for the motor or to pin it on them; new engine on the customer's dime. I've seen a lot of smaller screwups by them like over and under filling oil, damaged drain plugs, missing drain plug seals, air cleaner housings not closed and/or damaged, K&N air filters supposedly serviced but not, intake hoses left loose... The one near my house likes to blow out air filters with compressed air which is a sketchy thing to do, don't know if they all do that. They've also pressed many people to do services the car didn't need.

 

Incorrect. "Pennzoil WAS crap" is what is true. PYB has been one of the best conventionals on the market for some time now.

This kind of stuff is the nature of all quicky oil change places and why I keep telling my company to stop wasting money going to them. I and a couple other guys at work can easily do all the same stuff that our company pays Jiffy Lube to do and more if given the time for way less than we spend taking trucks to JL, but like so many people out there, they're happy with their ignorance and don't want to change.

Does Pennzoil's business model depend so strongly on Jiffy Lube that crummy service at JL could really threaten Pennzoil as a whole?

 

Sounds reasonable... most miracles in a bottle are snake oil. For what it's worth, in the trillion-page-long Manifesto linked earlier, the guy's oil testing machine showed that those additives did indeed lower the pressure at which those oils failed.

LMAO

I'm not sure that can be QUITE attributed to "lubrication failure" as much as "zero maintenance".

25,000 miles in a GTI... hahahaha

I doubt that a fair bit - Shell's brands include Rotella, plain ol' "Formula Shell", Quaker State, and Pennzoil. The "Formula Shell" stuff ends up rebadged in a lot of store brand stuff. Up here that's what Canadian Tire's "Motomaster" brand oil is.

 

Since the Rotella T6 was recommended , I've been using it in the wife's Jeep. Must be OK, the engine is still together And like I said when I switched to it, the oil pressure is 6 to 8 PSI higher, for some strange reason...

So, what are folks using for break-in on a fresh rebuilt 4.0 Jeep engine ?? Being a flat tappet guy with all the stuff I rebuild, I use Valvoline VR-1, with comp Cams break-in additive. Current one is a 507 inch Caddy engine in my '75 El Camino project. It would seem that using the break-in additive after actual cam break-in would hamper the other items that have to mate, like rings to cylinders etc (??)

My project... it's all together now & ready to test drive !

 

Assuming it's a zinc additive I believe it should have no impact on things seating. My understanding of the zinc in oil is that it's not so much a lubricant but more of a back-up. If pressures get high enough to squeeze out the oil the zinc provides a barrier of protection between the scrubbing metals. I have also read that the zinc will stay on these high pressure parts like lifters for a while even when the oil is switched out to a low zinc. When zinc first started disappearing from car oil some people resorted to diesel or motorcycle oils, both of which have now gone to low zinc. Most, if not all, motorcycles use non-roller valve trains and I don't hear of them having issues with low zinc oil. I believe that the high pressure additives that have replaced zinc are generally adequate, maybe the first ones didn't do as well.(?) If you're concerned about it I think Amsoil still sells oil specifically for hot-rods with high pressure valve trains, there may be others as well. It's been mostly dispelled that 'too good' of an oil will prevent break-in. I don't have all the answers and don't know where to get them. To this day proper engine break-in itself is still as hotly argued as 'which oil is best'. There's a fair amount of evidence to show that a harder break-in is better than a gentle one yet most vehicle manufacturers still have the same ole "don't exceed 'X' RPM and MPH for 'X' miles. I do know that being overly gentle will keep rings from seating, seen it happen.

It's my understanding that zinc/phosphorus levels have to be balanced with each other as well as with the rest of the oil's chemistry, playing home chemist and adding stuff could lead to an oil that's less capable.

 

Interesting, my uncle has been a lifetime mechanic for Honda motorcycles, Harley Davidson, and then Volvo.
He swears by 'hard break in'. When he buys a brand new Harley, he leaves the showroom and goes wide open. Says it freaks out everyone else at the dealership, but he just laughs at them.

 

They do have an impact on seating, but not the way you might expect. The way zinc and phosphorus work is to harden surfaces. During break-in, the steels is somewhat malleable. As the parts wear into each other, the surfaces need to harden into their ultimate shape to prevent continued wear. Zinc and phosphorous (the primary ingredients of ZDDP) chemically bond with the steel under heat to create a very hard surface that is resistant to further wear. This is particularly important on flat tappet engines, since if you didn't have enough zinc at break-in, the cam lobes wouldn't harden properly and would wear away. The break-in process is a continuous and simultaneous cycle of wear/harden/wear/harden/etc. until the engine settles into a somewhat permanent configuration.

This process makes proper break-in very important. If you break one in incorrectly, the surfaces harden in the wrong configuration. For example, if you drive the vehicle all on the highway in cruise control for the first thousand miles, the engine will break in at that load only and harden that way, so that it never develops its full power range. In a worst case scenario, the cylinders will wear without a taper, so that the rings never really seat properly, and you'll start getting blow by.

The instructions that come with the Golen strokers say not to baby the engine during break-in and to avoid cruise control. You want to break the engine in under the full load range, which means it needs to be pushed. I personally think you benefit from a middle ground. You don't want to break it in at WOT all the time, but you also don't want to treat it like it'll break.

 

One of the best reads I seen here.... pick whatever oil you want, just sayin...

 

Cylinders aren't supposed to wear into a taper. If they're cut with a taper it's to counteract the uneven expansion that happens at the top of the cylinder vs. bottom. Your hardening explanation doesn't sound right either. Some metals will work harden but I don't think any of those are used in wear areas of engines. Most materials that can be work hardened will also heat soften; brass, stainless, plastics, etc. Some cams are nitrided to resist wear which is a heat and chemical treating process that can't reliably happen in a running engine.

The most widely accepted break-in that I've seen repeatedly endorsed is to run the engine though a range of power and RPM and not baby it or run a constant power or RPM for extended periods. I've seen evidence of this working very well.