Rotella: The world's first ever combined hair oil, foot ointment, and salad dressing
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 603
Likes: 1
From: Hacienda Heights
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I've run it in lots of bikes & quads including a turbo bike. It's been my go-to bike oil for about 20 years. It seemed to make shifting a bit clunky in my first gen. CBR1100XX (big 9 plate clutch may not like it) but I didn't get around to trying different oil to verify before selling it. Shifting seems to be better with some bikes and not with others compared to bike spec oil. Won't run it in the Ducati out of fear even tho it should do fine.
CF Veteran




Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
No, I don't lick fish.



Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 11,169
Likes: 26
From: Northern Kentucky
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Junior Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: AMC242
Just opened oil shop surprised with oils sold in draught:
Texaco
- Ursa Premium TD 10w40
- Ursa Premium TDX 10w40
Petro-Canada
- Duron Classic 15w40
- Duron E 15w40
- Duron XL Synthetic Blend 10w40
- Duron UHP 10w40
Amalie
- XLO Ultimate Synthetic 15w40 & 10w40
Prices competitive.
European brands are much wider represented and well known here.
So would be pleased to know your opinion on the above mentioned brands/quality/usage in 4.0/5.2 Jeep engines and/or in 20+ years old HDDE.
Texaco
- Ursa Premium TD 10w40
- Ursa Premium TDX 10w40
Petro-Canada
- Duron Classic 15w40
- Duron E 15w40
- Duron XL Synthetic Blend 10w40
- Duron UHP 10w40
Amalie
- XLO Ultimate Synthetic 15w40 & 10w40
Prices competitive.
European brands are much wider represented and well known here.
So would be pleased to know your opinion on the above mentioned brands/quality/usage in 4.0/5.2 Jeep engines and/or in 20+ years old HDDE.
Junior Member
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
From: St.Petersburg, Russia
Year: 1998
Model: Cherokee
Engine: AMC242
Was very much surprised to learn that some Meyle filters are made in St.Petersburg.
Yesterday loaded a German trailer at Big-Filter with export for Meyle.
Yesterday loaded a German trailer at Big-Filter with export for Meyle.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
Very interesting article. Long but worth the read. He actually TESTS the oil not just look at the ingredients.
He is not a fan of Zinc, and he shows why.
He shows why so many cams and flat tappets are going bad during 'break in' and why 'break in oil' is not what you think.
I started using Rotella T6 but I think that I am going to switch back to my 40+year friend Mobil 1 5-30 after reading this article.
Very interesting article. Long but worth the read. He actually TESTS the oil not just look at the ingredients.
He is not a fan of Zinc, and he shows why.
He shows why so many cams and flat tappets are going bad during 'break in' and why 'break in oil' is not what you think.
I started using Rotella T6 but I think that I am going to switch back to my 40+year friend Mobil 1 5-30 after reading this article.
Thread Starter
Herp Derp Jerp

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
Likes: 17
From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
Very interesting article. Long but worth the read. He actually TESTS the oil not just look at the ingredients.
He is not a fan of Zinc, and he shows why.
He shows why so many cams and flat tappets are going bad during 'break in' and why 'break in oil' is not what you think.
I started using Rotella T6 but I think that I am going to switch back to my 40+year friend Mobil 1 5-30 after reading this article.
Very interesting article. Long but worth the read. He actually TESTS the oil not just look at the ingredients.
He is not a fan of Zinc, and he shows why.
He shows why so many cams and flat tappets are going bad during 'break in' and why 'break in oil' is not what you think.
I started using Rotella T6 but I think that I am going to switch back to my 40+year friend Mobil 1 5-30 after reading this article.
He did seem to only add the magic additives to a small selection which kind of artificially dominate the rankings, but the differences between, say, M1 and Rotella really speak for themselves...
I haven't read the entire thing yet but in the viscosity section he only addresses wear. I'd like to see some comments on piston ring health and oil consumption.
Guess I'm going to have to redo this article eh? lol
Last edited by salad; Sep 2, 2015 at 09:58 AM.
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 974
Likes: 14
From: Racine, WI
Year: 1997
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
This has been floating around lately, and I initially got very excited about that as well, but after the initial excitement wore off, I read it over multiple more times and value the whole thing very little. He draws conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and uses those stories to pat himself on the back and validate his findings--absolutely foolish. He does not actually ever share his methods properly, so the experiment can never be attempted by anyone else (bad science). His test is aimed at a very specific attribute of oil which he seems to think describes oils' capabilities completely which is a completely unjustified leap.
His understanding of a lot of theory is good, but that article is bad science and probably does as much harm as good if not more harm than good.
Right, there's a lot of claims, but no one would ever publish that write-up as a scientific article, and most professors I know would probably grade that as an F if it was trying to be passed off as science. He hits some of the marks for science, but misses a LOT of them. It's a great example of something that LOOKS like science but isn't. I'm actually disappointed in myself for my initial reaction to it because the more and more I read it over and think about it, the more and more distasteful it becomes to me as someone who does consider himself a scientist. It's sad because he had great intentions, but mucked it all up with ****-poor documentation, conjecture, and no way for anyone to even attempt to reproduce his experiment.
Even IF we take his word for everything, what he's testing and ranking is a VERY specific attribute of oils among MANY other attributes where this particular attribute is relatively UNimportant.
His understanding of a lot of theory is good, but that article is bad science and probably does as much harm as good if not more harm than good.
Admittedly its been a while since I last looked it up and things might have changed since then but the reason I can't put much stock in 540's numbers is that no one has ever seen the machine and there have never been any pictures of it shared nor videos of it in operation.
If someone built an identical machine and did identical tests and got the same results as his tests and other people verified that the tests actually relate to how oil works in an engine then I would be a lot more inclined to believe the results.
For all anyone knows at this point he could be using some version of a falex machine, in which case his numbers show which oils work very good in his test machine but would hardly be any indication of what would work well in a engine.
I'd bet that shampoo would probably produce decent numbers in his tester and extreme pressure oils like that used in axles would produce very high numbers way above the engine oil results but neither of those would be suitable in an engine.
I know several engine builders have requested details about the machine or even just pictures so they could build copys to attempt to replicate the tests but I'm not aware of anything ever happening.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong but at this point I put as much faith in those numbers as I do in the results from salesmen touting their miraculous oil additives using one armed bandits at auto shows.
If someone built an identical machine and did identical tests and got the same results as his tests and other people verified that the tests actually relate to how oil works in an engine then I would be a lot more inclined to believe the results.
For all anyone knows at this point he could be using some version of a falex machine, in which case his numbers show which oils work very good in his test machine but would hardly be any indication of what would work well in a engine.
I'd bet that shampoo would probably produce decent numbers in his tester and extreme pressure oils like that used in axles would produce very high numbers way above the engine oil results but neither of those would be suitable in an engine.
I know several engine builders have requested details about the machine or even just pictures so they could build copys to attempt to replicate the tests but I'm not aware of anything ever happening.
I'd be happy to be proven wrong but at this point I put as much faith in those numbers as I do in the results from salesmen touting their miraculous oil additives using one armed bandits at auto shows.
Even IF we take his word for everything, what he's testing and ranking is a VERY specific attribute of oils among MANY other attributes where this particular attribute is relatively UNimportant.
Agree with all above except that he does do some testing and not just look at ingredients.
My Vette came from the factory new with Mobil 1 and no special 'break in' instructions or oil additives. IDK, it broke in just fine. New cars don't have special break in instructions or additives beyond gentle use for the first 500 miles.
It is just something else to look at.
Just like our 'seat of the pants' or 'butt dyno' on how much more power our CAI, bored TB, TB spacer or headers make our jeeps feel.
Maybe mix half Rotella T6 and half Mobil 1 5w30. ha
My Vette came from the factory new with Mobil 1 and no special 'break in' instructions or oil additives. IDK, it broke in just fine. New cars don't have special break in instructions or additives beyond gentle use for the first 500 miles.
It is just something else to look at.
Just like our 'seat of the pants' or 'butt dyno' on how much more power our CAI, bored TB, TB spacer or headers make our jeeps feel.
Maybe mix half Rotella T6 and half Mobil 1 5w30. ha
Thread Starter
Herp Derp Jerp

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
Likes: 17
From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
lol
I see exactly what you mean, mschi772. A lot of it is more preachy and ranty than even I wrote. But hey, I will freely admit (and have, I think) that the article I wrote was from a specific perspective and with certain assumptions.
I agree that it is a very narrow view. The test results ARE useful - just not the end-all-be-all as he claims. Mobil1 0w20 SN may provide excellent wear protection in his test but there's no way in hell I'm going to run it in my Duramax for 20,000 KM! An entire industry seems to contradict some of his statements, and yeah he kinda comes off like a "run your car on water" guy.
I do like his comments regarding certain ZDDP additives!
I see exactly what you mean, mschi772. A lot of it is more preachy and ranty than even I wrote. But hey, I will freely admit (and have, I think) that the article I wrote was from a specific perspective and with certain assumptions.
I agree that it is a very narrow view. The test results ARE useful - just not the end-all-be-all as he claims. Mobil1 0w20 SN may provide excellent wear protection in his test but there's no way in hell I'm going to run it in my Duramax for 20,000 KM! An entire industry seems to contradict some of his statements, and yeah he kinda comes off like a "run your car on water" guy.
I do like his comments regarding certain ZDDP additives!
Senior Member
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 974
Likes: 14
From: Racine, WI
Year: 1997
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Yeah, it's not valueless if you know how to parse the good from the bad. I just worry about how pseudo-scientific stuff like this affects people who aren't as scientifically literate who can't tell the difference between useful information, conjecture, correlation/causation, and junk science. I worry we're going to be getting fanatics preaching the gospel of 540RAT and how Prolong Engine Treatment added to 5W30 Pennzoil Ultra or 5W30 Valvoline MaxLife High Mileage are the best oils ever and should be used by everyone all the time.
A JF member recently asked about oil, and I ended-up providing a response that sums in a nutshell where I'm personally at with oil and why. Until new information changes any of this, I think I might just be quoting myself from now on when people want to start the 3 millionth oil thread. I'm satisfied with this enough and am glad to have it as a time-saver to copy+paste now.
A JF member recently asked about oil, and I ended-up providing a response that sums in a nutshell where I'm personally at with oil and why. Until new information changes any of this, I think I might just be quoting myself from now on when people want to start the 3 millionth oil thread. I'm satisfied with this enough and am glad to have it as a time-saver to copy+paste now.
Basically it comes down to used oil analyses (UOA's). I'm not aware of any better real-world method of understanding how an oil performs than repeated, controlled UOA's. They can provide you with baseline information about fresh oil and tell you how that oil is holding up, how much of its additives are left, and what metals and other contaminants are building-up after X time.
Beliefs in loading flat-tappet engine with Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP/ZDP) are based on decades old information. Oils have advanced tremendously just in the last few years, and beliefs like this trace back decades. Because science literacy is in such a sad state especially in the US, a lot of builders and engineers (not all) behind crate engines and even aftermarket cams and other parts may not even have the skill to understand proper scientific publications and simply rely on information, myths, and obsolete practices that they acquired through unverified word-of-mouth or outdated tradition. Back to UOA's, if ZDP was as necessary in the flat-tappet 4.0 as so many people insist, products like Pennzoil conventional (aka Pennzoil yellow bottle/PYB) wouldn't produce UOA's with such little evidence of wear and such long-lasting oil life as they do--PYB has no where near the ZDP levels claimed necessary for a flat-tappet cam. While also not perfect, here is a nice article about the ZDP myth.
Another way people choose oil poorly is fundamental misunderstandings of viscosity. Example time:
Some are also under the odd belief that the 4.0 "likes" thicker oil and insist on using Xw40 or even Xw50 oils. Xw40 oils have been shown to be neither better nor worse in the 4.0 than Xw30's. Xw50, however, is simply a poor choice and even if it does not damage the engine, it doesn't help anything and thicker oil always negatively impacts MPG.
This leads to another false belief of many--that higher oil pressure means better protection. This often leads to people using excessively thick oils in order to increase their oil pressure to a level they belief is desirable, and it is wrong. Oil pressure is neither directly nor indirectly related to the performance of your oil. Keep you oil pressure within the factory specs, and do not draw any other conclusions from what the pressure happens to be on oil X vs oil Y.
I could go on about each of these subjects and others, but the nutshell is that when you eliminate all the junk science, superstitions, obsolete information, misinformation, and logical fallacies and gather good, trustworthy, useful raw data about how oils go into a given engine and how they come out of it and how much of the various parts of the engine come with it (which can all be learned from good UOA's), you can get a pretty good idea of what oils will treat your engine well and which you might want to play it safe and avoid.
After all that, I find myself returning to three very different choices each with its own particular role in my eyes.
I don't claim to know it all and am open to learning more about oil and happily change my stance as new information is assimilated, but junk science, myths, superstitions, and years-old forum threads/hearsay are all virtually valueless to me at this point. Real data collected in a controlled, scientific manner that is reproducible/verifiable is what I look for. My choices are based on my best understanding of the industry, its products, and the science involved combined with the most practical logic I can manage as a consumer, Jeep owner, and inherently biased being (anyone who says they are unbiased is a liar).
I think that sufficiently answers the question: "Which oil do you use in your 4.0, and why?"
Beliefs in loading flat-tappet engine with Zinc dialkyldithiophosphate (ZDDP/ZDP) are based on decades old information. Oils have advanced tremendously just in the last few years, and beliefs like this trace back decades. Because science literacy is in such a sad state especially in the US, a lot of builders and engineers (not all) behind crate engines and even aftermarket cams and other parts may not even have the skill to understand proper scientific publications and simply rely on information, myths, and obsolete practices that they acquired through unverified word-of-mouth or outdated tradition. Back to UOA's, if ZDP was as necessary in the flat-tappet 4.0 as so many people insist, products like Pennzoil conventional (aka Pennzoil yellow bottle/PYB) wouldn't produce UOA's with such little evidence of wear and such long-lasting oil life as they do--PYB has no where near the ZDP levels claimed necessary for a flat-tappet cam. While also not perfect, here is a nice article about the ZDP myth.
Another way people choose oil poorly is fundamental misunderstandings of viscosity. Example time:
5W-30
"Cold" is defined as 0 degrees Celcius (32 deg F)
"Hot" is defined as 100 degrees Celcius (212 deg F)
When it is COLD, its viscosity is that of a COLD 5 weight.
When it is HOT, its viscosity is that of a HOT 30 weight.
Many make the mistake of thinking that a 5w30 is a thinner oil than a 10w30 and that they shouldn't use it. This is right and wrong. When COLD, yes, it is thinner, but that is a GOOD thing. A cold 5 is still thicker than a hot 30, and in an engine designed to run with a hot 30, a cold 5 isn't going to be any danger. The thinner when cold, the better actually. Start-up is the time when the most wear occurs on an engine, and one of the reasons why is that the cold oil is thick."Cold" is defined as 0 degrees Celcius (32 deg F)
"Hot" is defined as 100 degrees Celcius (212 deg F)
When it is COLD, its viscosity is that of a COLD 5 weight.
When it is HOT, its viscosity is that of a HOT 30 weight.
Some are also under the odd belief that the 4.0 "likes" thicker oil and insist on using Xw40 or even Xw50 oils. Xw40 oils have been shown to be neither better nor worse in the 4.0 than Xw30's. Xw50, however, is simply a poor choice and even if it does not damage the engine, it doesn't help anything and thicker oil always negatively impacts MPG.
This leads to another false belief of many--that higher oil pressure means better protection. This often leads to people using excessively thick oils in order to increase their oil pressure to a level they belief is desirable, and it is wrong. Oil pressure is neither directly nor indirectly related to the performance of your oil. Keep you oil pressure within the factory specs, and do not draw any other conclusions from what the pressure happens to be on oil X vs oil Y.
I could go on about each of these subjects and others, but the nutshell is that when you eliminate all the junk science, superstitions, obsolete information, misinformation, and logical fallacies and gather good, trustworthy, useful raw data about how oils go into a given engine and how they come out of it and how much of the various parts of the engine come with it (which can all be learned from good UOA's), you can get a pretty good idea of what oils will treat your engine well and which you might want to play it safe and avoid.
After all that, I find myself returning to three very different choices each with its own particular role in my eyes.
- Pennzoil yellow bottle 5w30(This is the oil that I am currently using.) It is cheap. It yields outstanding UOA's in the 4.0. Anything cheaper isn't much cheaper and isn't as good, and you can't get any better than it for simple 3-5k mile oil change interval (OCI), so there's no sense in wasting money on anything more. 10w30 is also fine, but 5w30 will last plenty long enough for a traditional OCI without sheering (the risk of conventional oils with a large difference between cold viscosity and hot viscosity ratings), so why not get the one that will flow a bit better when cold, right?
- Shell Rotella T6 5w40Also fantastic UOA's. Also incredibly affordable. Not as cheap as PYB, so why don't I ignore it? Well, one reason is that some people sadly won't be moved from their belief that they need a lot of ZDP, and T6 is a great oil that these people will accept. Personally, it remains on my list for when an engine is potentially dirty because T6 has a great detergent level for dissolving and suspending sludge and other contaminants. It also makes for a very resilient oil for heavier duties like lots of wheeling/towing and other hard work especially in hotter climates. It is also capable in lighter duty 4.0's of safely reaching extended OCI's of 7500 miles or more (always monitor the health of an oil with periodic UOA's to verify its ability to reach your extended OCI during your first attempt and periodic attempts following).
- Castrol Edge 0w30 EuroI specify the Belgian or German make of this oil because there was a North American formula that was completely different and undesirable once upon a time. It is a relatively expensive oil, so why would I ever consider this one after saying not to buy more expensive oils than necessary? Obviously it even qualifies at all because it does indeed yield fantastic UOA's from the 4.0. The niche it manages to find that ultimately lands it on my short list is that of the extended OCI king. This is an incredibly long-lasting oil that has been monitored my numerous users in extended OCI's and shown to be incredibly sheer-resistant and maintain great protection in many cases well beyond 7k mile OCI's. If a 10k mile OCI is desired, this is the oil to use. As mentioned above, use UOA's during your first attempt to verify that it is holding up and still protecting into your desired mileage just to be sure. At a 10k mile OCI (some have run this oil even longer, though I haven't seen such long OCI's with this oil in the 4.0 yet), that $8 pint of oil actually has comparable value to PYB and T6. The trick to such long OCI's is either making sure you change your oil filter at a traditional OCI or use an oil filter specifically designed for extended OCI's as there are some that have been appearing over the last few years that are designed to last this long.
I don't claim to know it all and am open to learning more about oil and happily change my stance as new information is assimilated, but junk science, myths, superstitions, and years-old forum threads/hearsay are all virtually valueless to me at this point. Real data collected in a controlled, scientific manner that is reproducible/verifiable is what I look for. My choices are based on my best understanding of the industry, its products, and the science involved combined with the most practical logic I can manage as a consumer, Jeep owner, and inherently biased being (anyone who says they are unbiased is a liar).
I think that sufficiently answers the question: "Which oil do you use in your 4.0, and why?"
Last edited by mschi772; Sep 2, 2015 at 05:11 PM.
CF Veteran




Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
He draws conclusions based on anecdotal evidence and uses those stories to pat himself on the back and validate his findings--absolutely foolish. He does not actually ever share his methods properly, so the experiment can never be attempted by anyone else (bad science). His test is aimed at a very specific attribute of oil which he seems to think describes oils' capabilities completely which is a completely unjustified leap.
His understanding of a lot of theory is good, but that article is bad science and probably does as much harm as good if not more harm than good.... the more and more I read it over and think about it, the more and more distasteful it becomes to me as someone who does consider himself a scientist. It's sad because he had great intentions, but mucked it all up with ****-poor documentation, conjecture, and no way for anyone to even attempt to reproduce his experiment.
His understanding of a lot of theory is good, but that article is bad science and probably does as much harm as good if not more harm than good.... the more and more I read it over and think about it, the more and more distasteful it becomes to me as someone who does consider himself a scientist. It's sad because he had great intentions, but mucked it all up with ****-poor documentation, conjecture, and no way for anyone to even attempt to reproduce his experiment.
Yes, to all you said. I had the same reaction. It's junk science.
So he does some testing. Big deal. His tests are garbage. Meaningless garbage.
No, they are not. Without knowing the details of his methods, his results are just empty claims, as useful as the noise spewed from the mouth of a late-night TV used car salesman.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. He claims to know more than two entire industries - the car industry and the oil industry.
He not only has not provided extraordinary proof, not only has he not provided proof of any kind, he hasn't even provided good data.
Thread Starter
Herp Derp Jerp

Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 18,251
Likes: 17
From: Parham, ON
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II

For example, he indicated:
- Aftermarket additive packs tend to be ****
- Oils you think would score bad, do
- Oils you think would score well, do
...within a given context. It's VERY LIMITED in its usefulness, but intriguing regardless and raises some questions.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. He claims to know more than two entire industries - the car industry and the oil industry.
He not only has not provided extraordinary proof, not only has he not provided proof of any kind, he hasn't even provided good data.
He not only has not provided extraordinary proof, not only has he not provided proof of any kind, he hasn't even provided good data.



