Question for the Brits with LPG
#1
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Year: 2001
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Question for the Brits with LPG
Hi guys got a problem thats driving me nuts,when the motor is running on LPG at a steady 50mph the revs fluctuate up and down causing the trans to constantly up and down change.It wont do it on petrol?. Iv removed and cleaned throttle body,the IAC valve,iv had the system serviced there was a big wax buildup in the diffuser,iv run injector cleaner through the fuel system,and the motor still has this problem and im close to launching her into the sea.Can any of you guys shed any light on something im just not seeing here..pleeeeeeeeeze..
#2
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Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0L OBD-II
Not a Brit (Commonwealth close enough? lol) How are you adding the LPG? TBI?
Your problem sounds remarkably like a TPS issue. Have you tested it?
Lifted from our friend tjwalker:
Your problem sounds remarkably like a TPS issue. Have you tested it?
Lifted from our friend tjwalker:
Originally Posted by tjwalker
The throttle position sensor is connected to the throttle shaft on the throttle body. It sends throttle valve angle information to the PCM. The PCM uses this information to determine how much fuel the engine needs. The TPS is really just a simple potentiometer with one end connected to 5 volts from the PCM and the other to ground. A third wire is connected to the PCM. As you move the accelerator pedal with your foot, the output of the TPS changes. At a closed throttle position, the output of the TPS is low, about a half a volt. As the throttle valve opens, the output increases so that, at wide open throttle, the output voltage should be above 3.9 volts. Testing can be performed with an electrical meter. Analog meter is best. You are looking for a smooth sweep of voltage throughout the entire throttle band. While slowly opening and closing the throttle, take note to the movement of the voltmeter needle. There should be a direct relationship between the needle motion to the motion of the throttle. If at anytime the needle moves abruptly or inconsistently with the movement of the throttle, the TPS is bad
You should have 5 volts going into the TPS. At idle, TPS output voltage must be greater than 200 millivolts. At wide open throttle (WOT), TPS output voltage must be less than 4.8 volts.. The best is to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5 volts. One of the other wires should show .26V (or so). The other wire will be the ground and should show no voltage. Move the throttle and look for smooth meter response up to the 4.49 at WOT.
Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS.
The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture and vibration leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following: -
NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics! It should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected!
• Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting".
• High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction with a slow engine return to idle speed symptom.
• Slow engine return to idle: A failing TPS can report the minimum throttle position values incorrectly which can stop the engine entering idle mode when the throttle is closed. Normally when the throttle is closed the engine fuel injectors will be deactivated until a defined engine RPM speed is reached and the engine brought smoothly to idle speed. When failing a TPS will not report the throttle closed and fueling will continue causing the engine to return to idle very slowly.
• Engine Hesitation on Throttle Application: The TPS is also used by the ECU to determine if the driver has applied the throttle quicker than the Manifold Air Pressure sensor can read. The fueling is adjusted acordingly to cope with the sudden increase in air volume, however a faulty sensor can cause the ECU to ignore this data and the engine will "hesitate" when applying the throttle. In extreme cases with the engine at idle, a sudden application of full throttle can stall the engine.
• Engine Misfire: A fault TPS can report values outside the deined acceptable range causing the ECU to incorrectly fuel the engine. This is noticable as a slight misfire and can trigger the misfire detection software and/or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on the dashboard. Extreme cases can cause excessing misfires resulting in one or more cylinders being shut down to prevent engine and catalytic converter damage.
You should have 5 volts going into the TPS. At idle, TPS output voltage must be greater than 200 millivolts. At wide open throttle (WOT), TPS output voltage must be less than 4.8 volts.. The best is to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5 volts. One of the other wires should show .26V (or so). The other wire will be the ground and should show no voltage. Move the throttle and look for smooth meter response up to the 4.49 at WOT.
Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS.
The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture and vibration leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following: -
NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics! It should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected!
• Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting".
• High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction with a slow engine return to idle speed symptom.
• Slow engine return to idle: A failing TPS can report the minimum throttle position values incorrectly which can stop the engine entering idle mode when the throttle is closed. Normally when the throttle is closed the engine fuel injectors will be deactivated until a defined engine RPM speed is reached and the engine brought smoothly to idle speed. When failing a TPS will not report the throttle closed and fueling will continue causing the engine to return to idle very slowly.
• Engine Hesitation on Throttle Application: The TPS is also used by the ECU to determine if the driver has applied the throttle quicker than the Manifold Air Pressure sensor can read. The fueling is adjusted acordingly to cope with the sudden increase in air volume, however a faulty sensor can cause the ECU to ignore this data and the engine will "hesitate" when applying the throttle. In extreme cases with the engine at idle, a sudden application of full throttle can stall the engine.
• Engine Misfire: A fault TPS can report values outside the deined acceptable range causing the ECU to incorrectly fuel the engine. This is noticable as a slight misfire and can trigger the misfire detection software and/or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on the dashboard. Extreme cases can cause excessing misfires resulting in one or more cylinders being shut down to prevent engine and catalytic converter damage.
#3
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TPS
Thanks Salad,i did have the slow to return to idle sympton but when i cleaned the IAC and the throttle body it seemed to cure it,i cant workout why it would only have the problem on LPG,is the TPS a straight bolt on job new for old or is there some setting up involved?
#5
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Ok cool Buddy i think it may be worth changing it out for what they cost,and fingers crossed it will solve it...
#6
Caracticus Potts The Mod
It would not hurt to check the condition of the diaphragm in the evaporator, have seen a few where they get a little gummy and hurt performance in higher flow demands. A bad regulator will also cause your symptom
#7
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Year: 1998
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Engine: 4.0 high output
I've got 4.0 with a single point system and a 2.5 with a multi point system, and while I must admit the multi point system is far superior the single point is no slouch. Do you have a stepper motor fitted? these can fluctuate and cause your symptoms, if not try fitting a power valve between the evaporator and the throttle body.this acts like a shut off valve, you get some one to hold your revs at 3000 then you wind in the valve screw untill the engine starts to falter job done works great on mine. The 2.5 runs purely on gas we've removed the petrol tank and fuel line for better ground clearance for off roading it starts on gas after we tricked the ECU into believing the engine was warm by fitting a resistor to the temp sender
Last edited by nipper; 07-02-2013 at 12:37 PM.
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#8
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I've got 4.0 with a single point system and a 2.5 with a multi point system, and while I must admit the multi point system is far superior the single point is no slouch. Do you have a stepper motor fitted? these can fluctuate and cause your symptoms, if not try fitting a power valve between the evaporator and the throttle body.this acts like a shut off valve, you get some one to hold your revs at 3000 then you wind in the valve screw untill the engine starts to falter job done works great on mine. The 2.5 runs purely on gas we've removed the petrol tank and fuel line for better ground clearance for off roading it starts on gas after we tricked the ECU into believing the engine was warm by fitting a resistor to the temp sender
#9
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Yes it was gummed up with wax pretty bad,and to be honest so was the throttle body so with it all cleaned i was kinda hoping it would have solved the problem..
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