Fram notes - "smaller dirt particles" How small is smaller? Are we talking 1 micron? 5 micron? 10 micron? Ya if its that small it really doesnt matter anyways. They leave that info out for a reason, it sounds better to the uneducated. Its all for marketing reasons. Most of the junk in oil is bigger then 20 microns which will clog the media. Why do you think most filters filter down to 20 micron? Cause most of the stuff in oil is bigger then that!

You obviously have no idea how or why the bypass works either. It works based on the pressure difference from the inside to the outside of the filter, aka how well the filter media flows. Most open when there is around a 10 psi difference. So for a Fram, thats all the time haha. You also dont seem to know that the bypass is about a 1/4" hole. You think a 1/4" hole is enough to supply an entire engine of oil? Not even close. Most engines need a passage of at least 5/8" to be able to supply enough of a volume of oil to the rest of the engine.

Ladies and gents, this is the end of "how an oil filter works 101". Use my info, ignore it, run a good filter, use a Fram, believe what Dave says, I really dont care. To each their own!

Dave, best of luck to you and your Fram future.

 

So long as nobody is getting banned... (if only he were just regular shaky... it was the extra that did him in.. ) I think we're in good shape!

 

The only issue with that philosophy is:

"What exactly IS the problem?"

I have seen syllogistic reasoning to formulate opinions, with little to no evidence to support their assertions, but hey, no prob, here's my theory, and it's a heckuva lot simpler than flow and filtration and purple filters and Wix:

• People who buy cheap Frams (and it's only XGs) are short on coin.
• People short on coin do not service their vehicle in a timely manner because they forget or can't afford it.
• You put 20,000 miles on a Fram XG and for sure there's a pile of catastrophic failures.

This theory also explains the lack of class action suits against Fram. The litigants bring a Blackstone report of the oil to court which says "Sample appears to be roofing tar" and that's the end of that.

 

What are you TALKING about 1/4" hole? ALL the oil goes through the filter bypass. See visual aid:

 

For me it was wonky oil pressure after a change. Specifically it seems the relief valve wasn't opening correctly. It was suggested that the use of the Fram filter might be the problem, so I swapped it out with a WIX and the problem was corrected.

Did you watch the video Cruiser posted?

I don't doubt that there's factors in play such that it's not a clear "I used a Fram and my engine blew up". 5-speed has earned my respect over time on this forum such that I believe him when he says he has seen it multiple times. Cruiser's reputation is completely beyond reproach.
For me, I've never heard of any other brand specifically called out as a "do not use" as far as oil filters go, I've had a bad experience personally and there's evidence that the filters are demonstrably inferior. Therefore -I- will not use them. If anyone else wants to, or if you insist on doing so -- more power to you bro, like I said, it's your Jeep - do as you see fit.

 

In all seriousness guys - please don't let this degenerate. The case has been made for and against and folks have the information to make whatever choice they prefer.

 

Yes your correct. But the bypass is a 1/4" hole, a little bigger on some filters... Cut one open to see for yourself.

 

Hey it's a spirited informative discussion!

I saw the video Cruiser posted, and indeed had seen it before. When I get home I think I shall head down to the local WalMart and get one to cut up cause the one he used doesn't seem right.

 

Go for it - post up your results - especially if you find something different.

 

Fram filters aren't any cheaper than a Motorcraft, Mopar or Wix filter, why not use a more trusted brand if there is little to no difference in cost?

 

Pat, forgot to reply to this earlier. Gave me a good chuckle. I kinda miss him. Dont join the Rotella cult!

 

It is good to have the discussion. Everyone has an opinion with some good points made but Dave has presented some sound arguments with evidence to back it up and I like that so I give him credit. If you want to be more analytical don’t give a lot of weight to comparisons where a position is based solely on a visual account, anecdotal connections and perceptions. Filtration is not a straight forward topic to discuss due to many factors. I have some experience in aerospace filtration and it becomes highly technical. A few thoughts, some of which have been brought up by Dave and others:

* Poorly maintained engines and use of low cost filters likely go together. Engines with a long history of inadequate maintenance, severe operating conditions and high miles are likely to experience more filtration failures and engine damage.
* The Fram video identifies sound test methodology and I trust they tested for and met the conditions and standards they say they did. What has changed in quality and manufacturing since is unknown and the corporate ownership has changes several times over the past 30 years.
* Changing oil to a high detergent oil (such as oil intended for diesel engines) or synthetic where oil has not been changed for some time may clean out large amounts of built up crud from the engine and contaminate a filter quicker.
* Water can have a significant effect on filter performance. Water that collects in the filter and media can freeze and restrict the filter media and bypass valve on initial start, risking internal damage on less robust filters. Water also tends to bind contaminates together to more quickly block the media.
* Antifreeze when mixed with oil forms hard globs that can quickly plug a filter and risk internal failure.
* The way automotive oil filter ratings are displayed are of little help in identifying their true performance or value. Aerospace filters are identified as meeting specific standards for test methodology, nominal particle size and Beta rating. And even at that I have seen significant differences in performance depending on how tests were performed, the type and shape of contaminates and the distribution of contaminate particle size.

The point of all this is that there are many factors involved in filtration and it is a science. I like to take an approach based on hard data. You can’t tell the quality of filtration simply by visually examining the parts. I would not give too much weight to what you see in cut up filters. Even the number of pleats is not conclusive evidence to capability as you need to understand the design criteria and performance of the media and back it up with test data. Unfortunately the info that filter manufactures typically provide are not much help. However if the manufacture, assuming you have a nominally good engine, says it is good for 5000 miles don’t expect it to work adequately for 7500 miles of hard driving on an engine that has issues such as excessive blow by or antifreeze in the oil. If one filter costs $3 and another costs $12 or $20 there is probably a reason. If you have a mechanically sound engine, do not operate it in harsh conditions and change oil routinely you can without undo worry use a low cost Fram or other similar price point filter.

 

 

Are you asking me?

Truth be told, I have owned up to 3 Mopar vehicles simultaneously since 1994 and used to buy Mopar filters by the case. Have gotten away from that as our new minivan uses the cartridge. Although I have used some non-Mopar filters, in my OPINION the best answer is go with the factory recommendation (look what happens when you don't follow factory recommendations with things like CPS and O2 sensors).

Before I became "financially secure" and a "world traveler", I worked for GM-Chevrolet, and VW back in the day when they didn't use oil filters, only a screen like you see in the transmission. And although those engines used to suck valves (and I mean a LOT) they didn't often throw a rod. Those were the good ol' days...

Anyway, my point (and TC's, if I may be so bold) is that there are "opinions" and there is "evidence-based process", as well as "disinformation" and "just plain wrong" (such as calling the Fram end-caps "cardboard" when they're not).

[Pausing to do other more fun stuff, because I can...]

 

I did hear about that but that was before my time, and apparently some posts were removed.

What can you possibly say about oil that gets you banned?