cpnwrench

Hey folks,

Yes I know this has probably been covered before, I did search on dead start no start etc here and could not find anyone with exact symptom i am experiencing.

here it is in a nut shell............

yesterday, got in ol red ( 91 xj 5 speed manual, 4.0, multi-point fuel inject, nothing fancy about accessories, etc.)...and off to my Sunday golf outing....
started right up no problem, not even a hint of any failure about to occur....
drove to the golf course, played the 18 holes, and when finished got in ol red she started right up fine no lag on the starting etc etc, and drove back to my hotel.... great, no problem right? well, I get to the parking spot and shut her off. Then I think (as sometimes that does happen with me), "hey , why don't i run down to the cigar store and get a couple of cigars, its a nice day, and i played a decent round, why the heck not? right?" and put key back into ignition and turn the key and NOTHING....I mean BLANK, no power no nothing not EVEN a click!
Now, I know a bit about this vehicle and most vehicles, but this has all the earmarks of a battery discharge /dead problem right?
so I open the hood and wiggle the terminal wires around a bit (they are not loose on the batt by the way) I was just kinda seeing if that would maybe part of issue, like the terminal wiring might be kinda loose....anyway,
so i get back in and the dome light comes on when i open the door, so i think well maybe something vibrated ,,blah blah blah right?.......
well i go to start it again and the same thing happens, all power gone, no lights no nothing. not even a click...so I say screw it I gotta be workin the morning I ain't messing with it now its getting dark out. besides i got other trans to work.,,,,,


ok,,,,,,fast forward to today.................

so I get done work, a buddy comes over to help, (basically jumper car),,,,so I hook up the cable to his car and the jeep starts but when it does it turns over really slowly and weakly........but it does start and runs great...as I told my buddy i was going to Autozone to get new battery as i thought by the way it was acting, the BATTERY was dying/dead right?

so............I get to Autozone.....pull out the battery and have them test it.......according to their tester it says it tested good.......I am skeptical of their test,but hey, I say "ok, so why do I get nothing when I try to start (i.e put a load on it) up my jeep?".....here's what I get from one of the employees,,"you must have a electrical problem" (YA THINK?)...

Anyway,,,so I go put my batt back in the jeep.....and try to start and again nothing at all......
soo.........I ask if they could jump me with a booster pack or whatever they have for this situation.....so the lady (yeah lady)(not that that is a bad thing, just more retail that wrenching i suppose), anyway.......she brings out a gel big boy battery on a dolly with some jumper cables....
I am thinking this is probably gonna be not so good and a non charging batt not in a car usually ain't got the ummpph to do a static jump on a dead system... but hey what the heck...so I connect it up red on red term(+) and black to black term(-). get in jeep. turn key. NOTHING.
I get out of jeep, remove jumper cables, wait 30 seconds,,,,clamp red to red(+) and black to a body/block ground......
get in jeep turn key and she cranks but slowly and weakly but catches and fires right up like nothing was wrong, running great right?

so I thank the nice lady who provided me with a jump and drive back to hotel where i am staying to ponder if i have a "Electrical problem" or whether the friggin battery is just plain dying. or dead.

now that i have provided background......

what do you gurus and sage owners have to say to help me out here??????????....
I think the batt is dying a slow death, its 3 close to 4 yrs old....
but if its not the batt, what could possibly be shorting the thing out so quickly?
Alternator is fine I mean the jeep runs forever once I get her jumped.

I dunno anyone got some insight here? I will post my results when I get them, I just wanted to ask if anyone might have been through this similar scenario and I don't want to go buy a new batt (affordability here folks), if I don't have to.

I really am leaning toward dead battery/tired battery.......I dunno

thanks for any input you can provide me with!

cpnwrench

playin4funami

starter is starting to go out and dragging heavily, I have had this exact thing happen on two different jeeps, a more powerfull battery or the extra juice from the jump start will get it going for a bit but it won't last long. the good news is that a starter on a cherokee 4.0 is an easy 10 to 15 minute job if you take your time.
starter removal and install you will need a 14 mm and a 15mm socket for the two bolts on the starter and a 1/2 inch socket to disconnect the battery and then underneath the battery wire to the starter, other wire is a 1/4 inch nut i think. top starter bolt is a little tight for manuvering room.

ken72

Ok... so I went through the very same situation minus the hotel, golf outing and cigar store run.... although I am a little jealous... I do love a cigar and a round of golf... what were we talking about...

oh yea, I was having the same issue, and it seemed like a bad alt or effed up electrical system. The best part is, I had just replaced my alt and battery two weeks prior so I was sure those were not the issue. Took it to autozone and talked with a guy who nailed it. He removed my battery connections and used a terminal cleaner to clean the battery terminals and battery connections. He said the connectors were shot and I would keep having this issue if not replaced. After cleaning them and reconnecting it cranked right up. So I threw the old ones on there out and replaced them with some nice new brass ones. I have not had any issues so far so I think this guy knew what he was talking about.

ken72

At first I thought my starter was shot also but after further investigation the starter was just fine, it was poor battery connection the whole time. I almost jumped on a new starter also.

playin4funami

If you are wondering if this is the starter,next time it won't start reach down or swing under and tap the starter with a hammer,not too hard we don't want to break nothing! see if it will start,if it does you have a dead spot in your starter. but heck I ain't no technician.................. if your battery connections are good,clean, and tight, I would put money on it being the starter........

ken72

X2... that has worked for me in the past for diagnosing a bad starter.

playin4funami

Like I said, definately check the battery cables and ends first like ken said, they are cheaper than a starter. I will be one or the other, also don't forget to make sure the 1/2 nut holding you battery cable onto the starter solinoid is tight, I have seen those work loose before.

uberxj92

i went thru this same thing last year. it turned out to be 2 things at once. the battery connectors ( still stock from circa 1992) were broken internally. also, i have accessories on my battery like 3 more wires than stock for winches & extra fuse block & stereo. at autozone you can get these cool things that slide onto your battery post & they havemale connectors on them for accessories ( so you do not wear out your battery post & connectors).

the second thing i did was replced & added a second ground wire on my battery.

cpnwrench

thanks so much folks!!!

good info to digest!

gotta replace the batt cables the neg sid looks fine, no corrosion or breakage visible, gonna meter it out to be sure though.

the pos terminal albe looks like its had better days.. no corrosion, but the leads going into ait are appearing to fray out....,,,,,,

also, i just replied to another thread about jeep dying after going through car wash.....

it got me thinking, as I had done the same thing earlier in the day , but it ran fine all day, started etc etc etc...

what got me thinking was I remember some time ago I had a similar problem and it turns out it was one of my turn signal (in the front) lamp sockets was corroded all to crap and was shorting the 12vdc out to ground. i.e. killing my battery.

so this weekend i am gonna check each and every socket and connector wire harness, as well as replace the battery terminal wires. maybe get new battery too as the current one is like i said about 4 yrs old.

anyhow,,,,,,,I greatly appreciate everyone's suggestions!!! thats why I am glad to be a member here!

cpnwrench

uberxj92

these chrysler electrical systems are sure finicky. the other night out in the woods during a very wet mudding session when i would put the jeep in reverse it would shut off. ( no good when in a hole) . turns out the back up lights were to blame there. had to cut the stock positive wires off & wire them to a seperate switch. but we would never give up our xj's for anything. keep us up to date here on what you find on your jeep

cpnwrench

FOUND THE CULPRIT(S)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yep, folks here were right (1/2 right anyway)...but right non-the-less!!!!

close inspection yesterday of several things and the rampant use of a multimeter for voltage drop checks and ground checks etc......revealed the following::::

1.. front left turn signal marker bulb socket corroded to point where intermittent short to ground would occur, thereby discharging battery rapidly.
FIXED.

2. Battery cables to starter (yep, 20 yrs old, wear and tear), there is a separation within the insulation on the POS (+) cable, causing a voltage drop when wiggled around(i.e. simulating vibration during driving conditions)....
managed to get cable into position where it will start consistently enough where I can get to parts store and get stuff I need and come back and repair problem.
WEEKEND PROJECT.

sooooo there it is!

I will say it was quite disconcerting as the problem was nothing like anything in a trouble shooting guide.. I mean turn key to on and buzzer sounds and check engine light comes on like normal (for power on self test of CPU or ECU if wish), lights come on etc etc. then, as soon as the key is turned to the start position everything goes dark, I mean no click no nothing. thats what had me weirded out, had to disconnect battery and reconnect to get power back........ anyway, now I know the problem.

Am going to get new positive battery cable and negative battery cable this weekend and throw them on to fix this issue.

EVERYONE!!!! many thanks!

cpnwrench