RockAuto.com

complete exhaust kit from Exhaust manifold back for $119.00 delivered.

(mine is 91 xj)

there we go......


cpnwrench

 

For what it's worth, federal law only applies to shops taking off the emissions equipment. What an individual does to their own vehicle is up to them as long as there is no smog or vet testing in the area.

If a shop takes your catalytic converter off, then they are breaking federal law and can be fined/imprisoned.


My '96 doesn't have a catalytic converter and only has 1 O2 sensor in the down pipe and does not throw a code. I have pulled the codes (non present) and have checked the "Check Engine" bulb.

 

With all due respect...

Here we have another new guy to the forum who thinks he knows the laws better than those who have been enforcing them here on the board (and many other boards) for years. Your not the first to say this, wont be the last but you all have one thing in common... Your wrong.

Put a friggin cat on your rig or stop admitting that you dont run one. Scroll back and read the link supplied on forum participation and posting guidelines.

 

I also mean no disrespect- but this was an unfair comment. The cat sticky on this forum clearly addresses two things. The first are "rules for replacing converters", which reads that one of the four situations in which a convert may be replaced is if it is missing. This lists the only situations in which it is legal to replace a cat. The second are further requirements regarding the installation (only when deemed necessary by meeting the previous guidelines). Where is a clear statement in any of the text in the cat requirements sticky that says it is illegal to a vehicle owner to operate a vehicle with no cat? Upon further research I have found it to be illegal, but there is nothing in that post, or any official post (that I can find) on this forum that directly addresses this. This is something that should be addressed if the admins are going to hold forum members responsible as you did in this post. Once again, not trying to give anyone a hard time here- just asking for some clarity.

 

What is this tune-up thing you speak of?

 

How the beep do you get 350-380 a tank?

 

thats what I'd like to know...

maybe downhill... in neutral... on a good day?

 

That must be one hell of a hill....

 

I Thank You for the well thought out and articulated post. Most discussions on Cat removals/deletes dont go so well here, they simply deteriorate to the point where name calling occurs, someone gets butt hurt and the insults start flying forcing the MODS to take a hardline position on the discussion of this topic.

This part here seems pretty cut and dry to me personally.

"Please note that Federal law prohibits removal or replacement of a properly functioning O.E. converter."

It does not state "unless your the vehicle owner" as suggested by the post i quoted. It's against Federal Law to remove aka delete a cat. You said you since learned that it is illegal, may i ask where you found that text? Perhaps it's more clearly stated and the MODS may want to consider adding that to the sticky as well.

I apologise if i came off a bit ignorant, but i personally get tired of someone chiming in and saying.. no it's not illegal in my state, if you do this or that etc. I could have been nicer in my post.. thankls for putting me back in line.

 

Hey I appreciate the response, and I understand your frustration. I thought the guy that started the thread was saying he bought the car w/o a cat and it was okay because he did not remove anything. Really it doesn't matter- we all get the point. The Clean Air Act goes into it a lot deeper. I couldn't find the part that I read before, but here is a quote or paraphrase I found on another site - The 1990 Clean Air Act Amendments even prohibit private individuals from installing converter " replacement pipes" on their own vehicles. Anyone who installs such pipes would violate the Clean Air Act. Some may think it's okay to remove a converter if they are offroading, but the law still provides you with the guidelines to follow. All manufacturers certify each engine and chassis configuration meet emission standards and cannot be de-certified by anyone for offroad use.

 

No need to be an ***, honestly. I may be "new" to this forum, but I am not new to forums. Hell, I am a moderator on a world wide Ranger based vehicle forum.

I can even admit when I am wrong. I just read some of the Clean Air Act and it does say it is prohibited by even vehicle owners. However, I can see by the language where it can be understood to not include owners taking them off.

The Clean Air Act also says it is illegal for non-certified individuals to install them. That means if you buy a high flow cat, have welding/fab skills, and plan on putting it on yourself it is also illegal.

The CAA also says that no catalytic converter shall be removed for any reason unless it is deemed inoperable by a certified technician. That means if you have a performance car and plan on replacing the stock converter, your stock converter must have a problem and it must be replaced with a stock unit. The CAA also states that the stock converter must be covered by the vehicle manufacture for 8 years or 80,000 mile warranty.

The CAA also says that if a vehicle is an off road vehicle, it doesn't have to have one. That doesn't make sense since off road vehicles "pollute" the same air as on road vehicles. That is the government for ya, no common sense.


Honestly, my vehicle will not have one put back on it. I am not going to spend the $100 to put one on it when we don't have emissions testing here and my vehicle will mostly see off road.

 

From what I understand that is " normal ".

In operation the two O2 Sensors are scanned.

Upstream sensor is scanned for a rapidly fluctuation O2 level.

Down stream sensor is scanned for a steady O2 level.

This is how the computer knows the CAT is working.

There are three failures that can occur.

#1 Computer reads a steady O2 level at upstream sensor ( in this case sensor has most likely failed. )

#2 Computer reads that there is a rapid O2 fluctuation at downstream sensor indicating CAT failure

#3 Computer reads no O2 level at downstream - indicating downstream sensor has failed or not connected.

In your case the upstream sensor is in the exhaust and reading the 02 fluctuation, the downstream sensor is connected but reading the O2 level of the ambient air which is steady.

Disconnect the downstream sensor and see what happens.

FWIW - When I do Smog Test they run OBDII diags and do not use tailpipe sniffer. If I took out the CAT and did what you did, my vehicle would pass EXCEPT for one thing. The Smog Test people look under the vehicle to insure the CAT is physically there BEFORE they do the test.


Removing the CAT is illegal, and if your state does Smog testing, they should find it .... unless they are really stupid.


I learned all of the above while working out a CAT problem on my work van that uses a newer type of CAT and costs $800 at the dealer to replace!



There is real logic behind that. Though a single OHV may pollute as much as a highway vehicle, their numbers are way less and thus as a group are not a major contributor. Aside from that enforcement would be a nightmare. Highway use, titled, and registered vehicles can be, and most like are, required to pass a Smog test on a regular basis.

If I had an Off Road Only vehicle, I would probably not have the CAT out of safety concerns. How many fires have been started because a CAT equipped vehicle parked in tall grass/brush and that extremely hot CAT caused ignition?

Just wait till they require CATs on weed whackers, chain saws, and lawn mowers!

 

I was not an ***.. could have been more polite but certainly not an ***.. but you just proved my point on incoming insults.

I could care less if your a MOD somewhere else.. i was a senior MOD here (and elsewhere) and we never had any luck trying to keep cat discussions civil. This is why this forum has not allowed discussion of cat deletes on this forum, because it always ends in insults when someone cannot debate the issue. I have no doubt this thread will find it's place with the rest of them.

 

In Indiana there is only 1 or 2 counties that are required to smog test a vehicle; they are in the northwestern part of the state that borders Chicago.

 

In the Peoples Republik Of Marylandistan ( Maryland ) every county has a Smog Facility.

A vehicle is require to be tested every two years, but what sucks is in reality a vehicle could require testing evey 90 days in theory.

Anytime a vehicle is sold, a new test is required withing 60-90 days of transfer.

If the previous owner had my XJ tested before I bought it, the state will still require another test within 90 days ... at my expense of course.