vladpascu

Hi all,

I'm working with a 1998 Jeep Cherokee Classic 4.0L that needs a lot of work in the front. I took the car to Big-O tires to get a tire rotation. They also did an alignment check and came up with the following work list. I'm planning to do all this stuff myself, but I am wondering if I should replace anything else while I'm under there.

-replace all ball joints
-replace front shocks
-replace tie rod end at pitman
-replace track arm
-replace stabilizer shock -- this has been done about 4 years ago, so not sure why they are saying to replace it? could it be that it got ruined since all the other stuff around it was shot?
-replace u-joints at knuckle -- it took me a bit to figure out what this meant. I'm about 90% sure they mean the axle shaft u-joints. Right?
-replace rear shocks -- these were replaced about 3 years ago, so I'm not planning to touch them.

The car actually belongs to my girlfriend. She is in grad school so the budget is tight. Her plan was to get through school, then buy a car once she gets a job, but she has 8 months left + a clinical rotation in Alaska (we live in UT), where she will have to drive the car to. She is considering buying a car now, or fixing the jeep. As you all can probably relate to, there is a lot of sentimental value in her jeep, plus it would be cheaper to fix.

I'm excited to work on this thing -- I say that now, but I'm sure I'll regret that since the car is a rust bucket. Most of it's life was spent in PA, CO, and UT.
So my questions to all of you is, what else should we replace while we do all the work above. We have a budget of about $300-$400 for parts.

Thanks!
Vlad

tinytrax78

ummm if it needs all that .....they could NOT have aligned it ! just saying !
get another opinion before you do anything

vladpascu

Correct. They did not align it. I'm planning to take it back to a shop for an alignment once I get all these things replaced.

vladpascu

I should add that we know it needs work. It's like diving a death trap. Very unstable going over pumps, even at low speeds, all kind of clunking noises coming from the front, etc. So I don't doubt in needs this work.

wizardpc

If you're replacing the axle shaft u joints and the ball joints, you might as well take the opportunity to replace the hubs. It's not any more work.

Beware, though. When I did all that, I damaged the diff seals when I put it all back together. That's something you can't see until diff fluid is coming out of your axle tubes a couple days later.

And, of course, to replace those seals you have to tear down the front end again and remove the diff carrier.

PatHenry

You're going to be close to $3-400 in parts with that list.

A suggestion:
Look for some JK (Wrangler 07-18*) take-off shocks. You can get the whole set for around $100 on Ebay. They're used shocks but you can find low mileage ones and they are OEM so they're super high quality.
* There are 2018 JK's and JL's since FCA decided to make both the old style and new style Wranglers in the 2018 model year. Shocks from a JK will fit on an XJ, shocks from a JL will NOT.

Yes - u-joints at the knuckle are axle shaft u-joints.
Agree that you should do new hubs if you're doing the axle shaft u-joints. It's going to strain your budget (roughly $150 min for a new pair of respectable hubs), but it'll make it 1000x easier to get the axle nut off if you can use heat (which I always do if I'm replacing the hub but would NOT do otherwise).

Be aware of what you're getting into doing it yourself if it's rusty:

Ball joints need a press - rent the bigger one from Advance Auto to get the correct D30 cups (free with roughly $200 deposit).
Separating the knuckle from the old ball joints can be a nightmare. A sledgehammer will be needed.
The u-joints are a real PITA. I soaked a driveshaft in PB for a week and still ended up bending the bar on a bench vise trying to get one of the old u-joints out. The ball joint press will probably be needed and don't be stingy with the PB Blaster.
The upper nuts on the rear shocks have a tendency to snap off. I'd recommend an air chisel, if you don't have access to one, then I'd recommend drill and tap rather than drilling all the way through since it'll take a long time.
Make sure you have a good set of pickle forks for separating the ball joints, track bar and tie rod ends. I believe you can borrow a set from your local parts retailer (free with deposit).
One or more impact wrenches are highly recommended. The small cordless one that comes with many drill sets worked great for me for the tie-rod stuff and a bigger electric one is nice for the axle nut.
Account for at least 2 cans of PB blaster and 1 can of brake cleaner in your budget.
Power cutting tools and a MAP torch should be nearby for when things get hairy and if it's as you describe - things will get hairy.

Moog is a preferred brand for most of the tie-rod stuff, Spicer ball joints and u-joints are highly recommended but if you're only keeping the Jeep for another year or so, you can probably get away with cheaper stuff.

PatHenry

The differential seals on the front are not all THAT difficult to do, but it's certainly a non-trivial effort.

Stu's off road pages have been an excellent reference for me for many of the items on your list. Clear descriptions, pictures and quality advice.
Bleepin' Jeep is excellent as well if you prefer video.

firebane

Eh I wouldn't say Moog is preferred anymore. They don't have the track record they used to for good quality parts. Also Spicer ball joints only work if you have the originals and they were never replaced. Generally if people replace ball joints they will use ones that are knurled and you have to keep using that style.

And they will be far more than $3-400 into parts. I just did my tie rods for $150 and ball joins for $150 which was $300 alone and that wasn't replacing the wheel hubs either which would be another $200ish. Now these are Canadian prices but it still adds up very fast. Especially if you factor in rental costs and other shop costs.

PatHenry

I hear you on the Moog, but compared to the alternatives, they're still a good bet.

If they're JUST doing the parts listed I'd guess
$120 for the BJ's
+$30 for the single Tie rod
+$90 for track bar
+$40 for the steering stabilizer
+$30 for the u-joints
+$70 for the front shocks
+$20 shop supplies
=$400 (Theoretical) total

Of course, that's in U.S. dollars with the assumption that everything is obtained via RockAuto and/or Amazon with the cheapest shipping options. Fortunately in the states we have plenty of retail loaner tool programs so while the deposit will be high - the BJ press alone is $200 something - it all comes back upon return of the tool.

So in theory they could stay under budget - but as we all know all too well, it's almost certain that you're going to end up spending more than you originally anticipated.

vladpascu

Thanks for the replies! I appreciate it.
Follow up question: What's the recommended fluid level for the front diff? Will it start loosing fluid once I remove the axle shafts?

Thanks!

PatHenry

Front diff - Fill it until it starts dripping out of the fill hole.

It may lose a little fluid when pulling the axle shafts, but probably not enough to worry about. If your axle shaft seals fail, you'll see very obvious wetness at the end of the axle tube and on the knuckle and if they're really bad you'll see fluid leaking down the back of the tire.
A little leakage during the time that the shafts are out as well as for a day or two after putting them back in is OK.

The best thing you can do is just be very careful when you're removing and re-installing the axle shafts and don't jam them. The passengers side is the harder of the two since it's long and heavy and can be awkward to keep the shaft up and towards the center of the tube when reinstalling.

downs

Might as well rebuild the front end at that point when was last time control arm bushings were replaced? If its riding driving the way you say it is I'm guessing they are probably worn out. If you're fast and everything goes smooth you're looking at a day or so of work to replace all that stuff and itll feel like a new Jeep when youre done.

dzywicki

I'm in the middle of rebuilding the front suspension on my '98. Did one side last weekend and will be doing the other side this weekend. Like someone else said, I'd add control arm bushing sin there. I have used poly bushings in the past, but went with MOOG clevite this time. It's not too bad getting the old ones out with an air chisel/hammer and compressor. It is a giant pain without an air chisel/compressor. Really difficult to get the bushings out of the axle on the uppers without an air chisel/hammer. Sway bar end links are very easy to do while you're in there and don't cost much.
I am replacing ball joints, ujoints and upper/lower control arm bushings (in preparation for a 2.5" lift install). This is my parts list and prices:

ball joints:

Moog K3164 Control Arm Bushing Kit (lower) - $45.78
Moog K3162 Control Arm Bushing Kit (upper) - $30.78
Steering damper - Monroe SC2928 Magnum Steering Damper - $23.98
2 of Moog K3161T Ball Joint - $28.15 X2
2 of Moog K3134T Ball Joint - $26.32 X2
2 Napa NPJ P377 axle shaft u joints- 2x$15

Rented ball joint press (also useful for ujoints)- $140

I bought a DPG offroad lift kit (2.5 OME hybrid) with shocks, coil springs, leaf springs and bushings so these parts are getting replaced too.

You do have to remove the hub to replace the ujoints so definitely easy to replace those while you're there. But, not necessary unless you are hearing a roaring noise at speed.

Once you replace ball joints + ujoints + control arm bushings + steering damper + shocks + hubs + sway bar links you have a renewed suspension except for rear leafs/bushings and coil springs. Those are the major wear items on the cherokee (+ motor mounts and transmission mount).

firebane

If you have the original spicer ball joints do not use anything other than spicer.

Replacement ball joints are knurled and destroy the hole they go into. The spicer brand are smooth and keep the hole smooth and proper.

A set of upper and lower spicers are super cheap.

downs

Not sure what you have for tools but on the axle side bushings the ball joint press will work on the passenger side bushing. It won't work well on the drivers side

take a drill and drill out the rubber around the center pin then take a sawsall and cut the outer sleeve in two places after that it comes out easy

For reinstall put the bushings in the freezer overnight or at the start of the job and use a minisledge to drive them home.