Stock XJ Cherokee Tech. All XJ Non-modified/stock questions go here XJ (84-01)
All OEM related XJ specific tech. Examples, no start, general maintenance or anything that's stock.

Another crank, no-start thread...

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Jan 12, 2024 | 08:52 PM
  #1  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default Another crank, no-start thread...

New cylinder head. New: plugs, wires, dist cap, rotor, pick-up coil, ignition coil. Confirmed spark at all spark plugs. Fuel pressure tested. Confirmed fuel flow to all injectors and also had a fire (used the extinguisher...). I never messed with the timing chain or distributor.
I unplugged the CPS and Confirmed that there is NO spark when the CPS is unplugged. I fogged the intake via the throttle body with some starting fluid, didn't even try to start.
I'm at a total loss. Ran okay before I pulled the head. I have air, fuel, and spark.

Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 12:07 AM
  #2  
exasemech's Avatar
Senior Member
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 979
Likes: 481
From: North East USA
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

Somehow rocker arm bolt torquing process screwed up so valves aren't closing???

Just for laughs check compression in a couple cylinders.
​​​​​​
and of course are the injectors (connectors) and plug wires on correct cylinders/rotor position

Last edited by exasemech; Jan 13, 2024 at 12:11 AM.
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 04:50 AM
  #3  
awg's Avatar
awg
CF Veteran
5 Year Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 3,816
Likes: 725
Year: 96
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

plug wire order then noid lights be my first 2 thoughts, fire might have toasted the injection harness

you could probably hear it cranking too easy if it has no compression, but that is next to check

OBD2 check, engine sensors (such as TPS) are known to dislike fire extinguisher chemicals
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 07:01 AM
  #4  
Dave51's Avatar
CF Veteran
5 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 433
From: Connecticut
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

This is for the '97, right?

CKS/CPS out of sync?
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 07:51 AM
  #5  
cruiser54's Avatar
::CF Moderator::
 
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 43,971
Likes: 1,579
From: Prescott, Az
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default


Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 09:09 AM
  #6  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

Thanks for the responses. The fire just happened and I have several hours into diagnosing this issue; it is not a factor except it proves that fuel is flowing. Post-fire inspection reveals no damage to the connectors or wiring. Flames were only visible for a few seconds until I used my Kidde extinguisher.
I was reviewing a video I took of the spark plug and it didn't appear to be consistent. I watched a video last night of EricTheCarGuy South Main Auto Repair LLC (YouTube sensation) who diagnoses a no-start condition. I noticed in the video that he did confirm that the CPS for his client did somewhat work (it allowed for the injectors to energize) but it did not allow for the Jeep to start. He replaced the CPS and everything was fine. Today I'll go to HFT and buy a flex head wrench SAE set so I can replace the CPS that I do have on-hand. I checked the distributor Timing too and it is dead nuts on. The only explanation is weak and ineffective spark. I have read countless threads that this could be a serious factor and they ALL point back to the dreaded CPS (that I was avoiding to replace).


Last edited by User Unknown; Jan 14, 2024 at 09:20 AM. Reason: Referenced the wrong YouTube dude...
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 09:10 AM
  #7  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

Originally Posted by cruiser54
That is a great diagram; I did find that and used that to verify the old wire set and new set of components I installed.
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 10:46 AM
  #8  
Dave51's Avatar
CF Veteran
5 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 433
From: Connecticut
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by User Unknown
I watched a video last night of EricTheCarGuy (YouTube sensation) who diagnoses a no-start condition. I noticed in the video that he did confirm that the CPS for his client did somewhat work (it allowed for the injectors to energize) but it did not allow for the Jeep to start. He replaced the CPS and everything was fine.
Saw that.

In addition to CPS (really CKS) signal you also need the pick-up coil (CPS) sync'ed. The CPS/pick-up coil signals need to be within a CPS block. I use an entry-level (cheap) oscilloscope to do this:





You can test both sensors by turning the engine over very slowly and determine if they at least work or not.

Will wait to see what CKS switch does...
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 10:48 AM
  #9  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

I wish I wasn't 1000 miles from home where I have all of my diagnostic toys...
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 10:51 AM
  #10  
Dave51's Avatar
CF Veteran
5 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 433
From: Connecticut
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

From his fancy (expensive) machine:


Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 04:08 PM
  #11  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

CPS replacement was actually easy. I have a flex-head 11mm ratcheting wrench and it had it swapped out via engine compartment in about five minutes. This is with wearing like four layers of clothing as it is 7 degrees in my storage unit and I could press my feet against the narrow brick wall of the unit to easily hold my body up with my belly over the driver side fender.
And after all of that, still no start. I'm headed to AutoZone to rent a fuel pressure kit, noid light kit, and cyl compression tester.
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 05:16 PM
  #12  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

Fuel pressure is at 45psi. Noid light blinks on all six injector wires. When I pulled the plugs to test the cyl compressions, all of the plugs were wet with fuel. Compressions all at 115-120. Comes down to either bad gas or bad spark plugs. All were new Champion platinums. I'm headed back to AutoZone now to return the test equipment and then going to buy six copper Champions or Autolites.
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 05:59 PM
  #13  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

Six new Champion copper plugs installed. No change. Here is something interesting: when I hold the throttle all the way down I hear a very deep base "boom" sound that is random. Plugged Exhaust??
I have fuel. I have spark. If the Exhaust is restricted will there be no fire??
Maybe a family of mice moved into the Exhaust manifold prior to me installing the new head?
Reply
Old Jan 13, 2024 | 08:19 PM
  #14  
User Unknown's Avatar
Thread Starter
Seasoned Member
Liked
Loved
Community Favorite
 
Joined: Oct 2022
Posts: 269
Likes: 179
From: Wisconsin & Colorado
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0L Power Tech I-6
Default

Wow...an old Aircraft mechanic (A&P/IA) taught me to always take photos, a lot of photos, before you f**k with anything. I just noticed something huge. When I reassembled this engine I utilized the same spark plug wire routing photograph posted above by @cruiser54 . I just looked at some photos I took before touching anything. Mine are in REVERSE ORDER! How in the H**L does that happen?


CORRECT, FACTORY Firing Order



The BIZARRE setup my Jeep has...
Reply
Old Jan 14, 2024 | 04:23 AM
  #15  
Dave51's Avatar
CF Veteran
5 Year Member
Liked
 
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 3,461
Likes: 433
From: Connecticut
Year: 2000
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Default

Originally Posted by User Unknown
When I reassembled this engine I utilized the same spark plug wire routing photograph posted above by @cruiser54 . I just looked at some photos I took before touching anything. Mine are in REVERSE ORDER! How in the H**L does that happen?
Earlier you posted:.

Originally Posted by User Unknown
The motor was allegedly rebuilt about 15k ago
Originally Posted by User Unknown
It is a really PITA to start this this thing.
My guess is the cam is 180 degrees out.
​​​​​​​
Reply



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:24 AM.