BarbaraV

Hi guys, I enjoy reading all your posts and I think you are one smart group of fellas, so I thought I would put this out here and see if anybody has any thoughts on what could be going on here. Don't worry about getting too technical, I'll look up anything I don't understand. Sorry this is kinda long, but I think all the facts are in here so please keep reading. Any ideas you can give me will be greatly appreciated!

So, my 2001 Jeep that only has 24,120 miles on it (yes, that's the true mileage -the odometer has not rolled over), died in traffic the other night. It wouldn't move in any gear I put it in - like I didn't have a transmission at all! The engine is running perfectly and has no problems at all. The trans just faded away while in second gear and then flat-out would not engage again at that point. Prior to that I noticed it was having trouble shifting and I really had to stomp on the gas to get the car moving at all. It was lurching badly on upshift and when I took my foot off the gas. BUT, when I shut the car off for a few minutes and restarted, the trans would engage and work for a couple minutes and then fail completely again. I let the car sit for a whole day and then drove it and it was fine - like it had no problem at all! Driving it around over the course of that day I noticed the transmission performance started to degrade again, the trouble shifting and the lurching began again and the trans failed completely and I had to have it towed. So I had a shop look at it. It sat for a day at their shop before they could get to it, and of course they found nothing wrong with it! But since the trans had not been serviced in a while I had them change the filter and the fluid, hoping that was the problem. They said both those things looked fine to them and didn't need to be done. It did no good, last night the car did the same thing - it was fine at first and the more I drove it the worse it became. I barely got it home! The shop refused to tell me what they did to diagnose the trans or how they did it, but I don't see a charge for any sort of computer diagnostic on the invoice, or any indication of an electrical check, or any check of the TCM. And now the trans is leaking and it wasn't before!

The particulars of the car are: It's the stock engine 6cyl. 4.0l, auto trans. I bought the car new back in Nov of 2000, it has not been modified from stock in any way other than I recently bought 4 new tires and had to go up to the 235 size to get the Goodyear radial tire I wanted. All four tires are that size. The trans issues started about 2 months after the tire purchase. It's never been off-road because it's a girl Jeep and doesn't play in the dirt. I've never towed anything because the car doesn't have the towing package. I didn't have any leaks anywhere under the car before the shop worked on it, but I do now. I notice no smell at all from the car. I'm very hard of hearing so I can't tell if it's making any noise or not. I don't notice any vibrations, just that lurching. The check engine light is NOT on, but I wonder how significant that is on a 13 year old car that could have an unknown issue with the on-board computer? Lots of things can go wrong with a 13 year old computer, I know that cause I worked in computer support for 10 years! Anyway, I hope this can be solved cause I do love this car, it's been the best car I ever owned and I would HATE to have to give it up! If you've gotten this far, thanks for reading the whole thing!

xjpioneer

I Read the whole thing and I'm a little baffled. When I had my 97, it was an automatic and I had a problem with it that was s little similar. Maybe this might help... I was a dumb assed teenager at the time, and I decided to go too fast on a bumpy road.. the right from upper control arm pinched the tranny cooler line between the pan and the upper control arm. Try having a look at the cooler lines, maybe they pinched and they're restricted? Let me know if you find out what the culprit is. I'm curious. When I replaced the lines, I just put fluid in it and it worked. Those AW4 transmissions are pretty stout.

BarbaraV

Thanks xjpioneer! I'm making a list of things for the new shop to check and I will add that! Even tho I haven't done any teenager-type driving lately you never know! Things rust and decay and slip, even when it's sitting in the driveway. That's what most of it's issues are now - old age. I'll keep you posted on this issue - it sure is a weird one!

BarbaraV

So the problem was caused by water in the transmission fluid! How did water get in there? Apparently, when it rains water runs down the back of the engine compartment and straight onto the dipstick for the transmission fluid. The dipstick tube has no seal on it so it allows a small amount of water to flow down the tube and into the trans fluid. Over time this becomes a big problem, and it's so gradual you really don't notice an issue with the trans until you're in serious trouble. I was told there was rust inside the transmission on my car! And of course they found that because they had to do a complete trans rebuild, to the tune of $2200.00! So, if you have a 2001 Jeep Cherokee I strongly recommend that you make sure that dipstick gets a seal on it so it can keep out any water that may run down there.

F1Addict

That explanation from the trans shop is extremely suspect. The dipstick does have a seal and it sits far enough forward of the firewall that there is no possible way for rain to drip in there. Period. I know people who have had river water over their hood and not had this problem. I would definitely recommend getting a second opinion.

belvedere

I agree, F1, but it sounds like the rebuild is done. Thanks for reporting back, Barbara, and glad your XJ is working again!

BarbaraV

I'm sorry - in an effort to be brief I left out a lot of details here. Let me give you the sequence of events. First, water gets into the trans via the dipstick tube, which does not have a seal. I don't know if it ever did but it didn't and probably hadn't for many years. So the water dripping in goes on for many years and nobody is aware that it's happening. The oil change place checks the fluid and says it's fine, but they don't look at the consistency, just the level. I never had the fluid swapped cause the car only has 24,000 miles on it. Everybody told me it wouldn't need to be done till 30,000. So I keep driving it and now the fluid no longer lubricates the trans, seals are blown, yadda, yadda. Really and truly - I noticed nothing wrong with the car beyond a slightly slower acceleration, which I thought was crap gas. So I throw a can of octane boost in it and keep driving it. Now the torque convertor clutch gets into the act and slowly begins shredding itself, puking bits of metal into the fluid and all thru the trans. Now the metal bits cause all kinds of valves to start sticking and the car dies in traffic. Won't move in any gear. I'm of the opinion that the trans is toast at that point, and I think everybody will agree with that. So I have the car towed to a repair shop that claims they do trans work and they tell me the car is fine. I have them pull the pan and replace the filter and fluid, they still say the car is fine, they see no problem with that car! So I drive it home and I barely make it into my parking spot. Obviously, the 1st repair shop are not the guys for the job, so I make an appt to take it to a real trans clinic. The car dies in traffic on the way to that appt and I have to have it towed, again. And their guy pops the pan off, pours the fluid and sees tons of metal shreds stuck to the pan magnet. So it's rebuild time! So that's why a little water can cause a big expensive bill! And I do apologize for the confusion. I hope it makes more sense now.

F1Addict

It was my fault, I missed the header in your previous post which clearly states that it was fixed.

I believe the transmission shop can determine that water had gotten into the transmission and that it was the cause of failure. I don't believe that the transmission shop's explanation for how the water got there is realistic. It's speculation, IMO. If it were possible for rain water to drip into the transmission then we would see a forum full of catastrophic transmission failures. The dip stick has a cap on it that prevents foreign material (including water) from getting into the transmission via that route. Even if the dip stick was M.I.A., the dip stick tube isn't in a location that would be subject to dripping water with the hood closed.

So, how did the water actually get in there? Or was it even water that caused the failure in the first place or something the first shop did that caused it? I doubt we'll ever know but I would recommend having your transmission fluid and filter changed again after a couple months by a reputable shop just to make sure it's not a reoccurring problem.

s346k

glad to hear you got the problem corrected. disappointed to hear it was so costly.

not that i'm a transmission expert or anything, but it would take a LOT of water and downtime to get rust INSIDE the trans. all of those parts are soaked in trans fluid just from use. the *inside of the trans is obviously enclosed, making it difficult for air to get in there and cause a real problem. also, oil floats. any water would be laying in the bottom of the pan within an hour after contamination (after parking it and turning it off, obviously). if there was *that much water in the fluid, it would be evident on the dipstick and completely obvious by the fluid level and condition. i think whoever repaired the trans had no idea what actually caused the problems. you got a bogus diagnosis, IMHO.

also, if the vehicle is leaking any trans fluid, it needs returned to the place of work and repaired on their dime. probably something dumb like a pan gasket or loose line, but i'm sure you got a warranty and any at-home work done after the fact would void it.