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1992 4.0l having issues-in need of assistance

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Old 01-28-2013, 07:04 PM
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Default 1992 4.0l having issues-in need of assistance

The issue- Wont idle, backfires slightly, missing, dies...

A couple weeks ago it was running rough at a cold idle. miss a little bit and rev up and down. After a minute or two it would smooth out a run fine wouldn't have a problem after that. One day the problem didn't work itself out and got worse, began to backfire and die. I took into the shop so they could throw it on a computer. And of course the mechanic told me my computer was shot and i needed a new one. $150 later for a re-fab and $56 for a bad diagnosis, still no fix. Same problems and no change. Im stumped.

List of things fixed or tested-
New coil
plug wires last 10000miles
e3 plugs last 10000miles
cap and rotor last 10000miles
crank position sensor 6000miles
Throttle body cleaned
Idle control valve cleaned
map cleaned
New computer
new ignition ballast resistor
fuel psi good
air cleaner good
ignition pickup tested ok
all grounds cleaned
injectors cleaned in last 10000miles
used stabil at last fill up and every third week before that...
fuel filter done in last 6000miles
all vacuum line checked

Oh and mechanic said the timing was spot on also.

Any advice would be great

thanks

Last edited by passthrujr; 01-28-2013 at 07:19 PM.
Old 01-28-2013, 10:56 PM
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anyone have anything? I don't want to have to take it back into the shop...
Old 01-28-2013, 11:10 PM
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Try the EGR system, and emission controls
Old 01-28-2013, 11:24 PM
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Originally Posted by coloradowheeler
Try the EGR system, and emission controls
First off I don't believe I have an EGR Valve or anything of the sort. Non Renix is 91+ I've got a '92.

I'm lacking in a catalytic converter- for off road purposes of course but it hasn't caused any problem before for emissions. I don't think bad o2 sensors could cause anything like i've got going on. Wouldn't it have been consistently bad before it stopped working instead of getting better after it got warm?
Old 01-28-2013, 11:27 PM
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If it has a after-cat converter o2 sensor that might be your problem
Old 01-28-2013, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by coloradowheeler
If it has a after-cat converter o2 sensor that might be your problem
nope re welded bung right before cat. ran great right after i did it.
Old 01-28-2013, 11:53 PM
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O2 sensors are in play after the engine has warmed up. On OBD-1 systems the downstream O2 is really only there to throw a code anyway.

Is this all done at a mechanic's behest? I am quite amazed that you've replaced half of the engine management systems and you haven't even done a tune-up. GET THAT E3 JUNK OUTTA THERE. Find Champion coppers matching the sticker under the hood and gap 'em to 0.035". Hell, that could solve your problem right there! Fancy plugs like the E3s and Bosch +4s are notorious for causing misfires on the 4.0L.

Sooo have you tested the TPS?

Originally Posted by tjwalker
The throttle position sensor is connected to the throttle shaft on the throttle body. It sends throttle valve angle information to the PCM. The PCM uses this information to determine how much fuel the engine needs. The TPS is really just a simple potentiometer with one end connected to 5 volts from the PCM and the other to ground. A third wire is connected to the PCM. As you move the accelerator pedal with your foot, the output of the TPS changes. At a closed throttle position, the output of the TPS is low, about a half a volt. As the throttle valve opens, the output increases so that, at wide open throttle, the output voltage should be above 3.9 volts. Testing can be performed with an electrical meter. Analog meter is best. You are looking for a smooth sweep of voltage throughout the entire throttle band. While slowly opening and closing the throttle, take note to the movement of the voltmeter needle. There should be a direct relationship between the needle motion to the motion of the throttle. If at anytime the needle moves abruptly or inconsistently with the movement of the throttle, the TPS is bad

You should have 5 volts going into the TPS. At idle, TPS output voltage must be greater than 200 millivolts. At wide open throttle (WOT), TPS output voltage must be less than 4.8 volts.. The best is to use an analog meter (not digital) to see if the transition from idle to WOT is smooth with no dead spots. With your meter set for volts, put the black probe on a good ground like your negative battery terminal. With the key on, engine not running, test with the red probe of your meter (install a paper clip into the back of the plug of the TPS) to see which wire has the 5 volts. One of the other wires should show .26V (or so). The other wire will be the ground and should show no voltage. Move the throttle and look for smooth meter response up to the 4.49 at WOT.

Perform the test procedure again and wiggle and/or tap on the TPS while you watch the meter. If you notice any flat spots or abrupt changes in the meter readings, replace the TPS.

The TPS is sensitive to heat, moisture and vibration leading to the failure of some units. The sensor is a sealed unit and cannot be repaired only replaced. A TPS may fail gradually leading to a number of symptoms which can include one or more of the following: -

NOTE: The throttle position sensor is also DIRECTLY involved with transmission shifting characteristics! It should be verified early in the troubleshooting process, when a transmission issue is suspected!

• Poor idle control: The TPS is used by the ECU to determine if the throttle is closed and the car should be using the Idle Air Control Valve exclusively for idle control. A fault TPS sensor can confuse the ECU causing the idle to be erratic or "hunting".
• High Idle Speed: The TPS may report faulty values causing the engine idle speed to be increased above normal. This is normally found in conjunction with a slow engine return to idle speed symptom.
• Slow engine return to idle: A failing TPS can report the minimum throttle position values incorrectly which can stop the engine entering idle mode when the throttle is closed. Normally when the throttle is closed the engine fuel injectors will be deactivated until a defined engine RPM speed is reached and the engine brought smoothly to idle speed. When failing a TPS will not report the throttle closed and fueling will continue causing the engine to return to idle very slowly.
• Engine Hesitation on Throttle Application: The TPS is also used by the ECU to determine if the driver has applied the throttle quicker than the Manifold Air Pressure sensor can read. The fueling is adjusted acordingly to cope with the sudden increase in air volume, however a faulty sensor can cause the ECU to ignore this data and the engine will "hesitate" when applying the throttle. In extreme cases with the engine at idle, a sudden application of full throttle can stall the engine.
• Engine Misfire: A fault TPS can report values outside the deined acceptable range causing the ECU to incorrectly fuel the engine. This is noticable as a slight misfire and can trigger the misfire detection software and/or Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) light on the dashboard. Extreme cases can cause excessing misfires resulting in one or more cylinders being shut down to prevent engine and catalytic converter damage.
Maximum voltage may be slightly different on a '92 but the test will still behave the same way.

Backfiring may also be related to the MAP but let's take this one step at a time.


EDIT: Also beware that discussion of catalytic converter is banned on this forum as it is a federal offense.
Old 01-29-2013, 11:12 PM
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Thanks for the info. I just got done replacing the MAP it tested ok with the ignition on but I couldn't tell much with it running. It seemed to help a lot but it is still missing quite a bit.

Thottle position tested good. so it gets ruled out.

All i took it to the mechanic for was so I could get the codes read because I dont have an OBD1 reader....

I set aside replacing all off the basic tune up parts because they had been recently replaced.

I posted the CAT information because it could be important information to anyone that is helping me but thank you.

I pulled plugs and they all looked good. They weren't gaped funny or anything.
Old 01-30-2013, 06:01 AM
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Do this vacuum test:

CRUISER’S VACUUM TEST FOR EXHAUST RESTRICTION

Your vacuum gauge should come with an instruction booklet outlining the procedure. Hook the vacuum gauge up to a source on the intake manifold. Start the engine and note the vacuum reading. Usually 17 to 21 inches of vacuum. Throttle the engine up to 2,000 to 2,500 RPM for 20 seconds or so and the vacuum reading should stabilize to the same reading you got at idle. Let the throttle snap shut. The vacuum reading should shoot up about 5 inches of vacuum higher for a second and then come quickly down to the original reading. If the vacuum reading stays high and comes down slowly with jerky needle movements, you have an exhaust restriction.
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