darknezz7

Stupid thing wont let me log into my other account "darknezz" wtf now its locked me out.

So a few weeks ago I towed two quads and hour to the coast, took the Jeep out on the dunes and in the ocean, was awesome. The second day I was going over some whoopdedoos, bumps, and the engine just shut off.

I quickly figured out it would stay running if I help the key in the crank position. Not having my volt meter or cell service I fumbled around with a jumper for awhile until I jumped the fuel pump at the relay.

Well it runs but now when my key is on but not started the pumps always on. Got me home at least.

I figured it was the ignition switch or relay so I just replaced both of those but no go. Note the ignition switch, the one ontop of the steering column, was melted at the brown ground wire.

So From what I understand the starter relay switches to the fuel pump relay after it cranks and fires up? I have not replaced this relay yet, or found where it is.

Is there a switch at the key cylinder too? Could it be the PCM?

Ballast resistor has been bypassed for along time, cps is 4 yrs old, possibility?


Thanks

DFlintstone

It,s an" ECU" Not Pcm. Yes, correct, the start relay juices it until the ECM grounds relay socket
Well, 86 or 85. One get's juice from the key, the other gets grounded by the ECU when it's running. Unlike the keyed power to close the points, The power at #30 is a fused link I think. So hot 30 sends power up to 87 when power is flowing across 85 & 86.

Jeep Driver

Follow the hot wire from the alt, fused link, leads to the starter relay..........silver with two posts.

djgrayxj

Note from DJ
Renix Ignition Switch Brown Wire Circuit Information
The following items are all powered by brown wire on the ignition switch I think
Front Wiper
Rear Wiper
Blower
Turn Signal
Rear Defogger
Power Door Locks
Horn Relay

djgrayxj

Note from DJ
OP what did you do to fix the ignition switch connector beside just replacing the ignition switch

djgrayxj

Note from DJ
OP did you try exchange your fuel pump relay with the common one to try is the A/C relay

cruiser54

I'd be doing a connector refreshing along with anything else after being exposed to ocean water.

67 GMC

I think you're in for a world of hurt here. How deep did you go in? Salt water is very conductive so really bad for electrical and the corrosion occurs really quick on metal connections (weak grounds can become no-grounds).

Optimistically, it could just be burned out connectors from holding the key in start for so long (Fusible link?). How did you stop the starter from turning-pull the relay or disconnect the wire to solenoid?

You should hear the pump prime when you turn the ignition key to RUN. If the ECU doesn't get a crank signal (like when it's in RUN), it shuts the pump off after 3 seconds. If the key is in the START position, the pump runs continuously. Remember that the ECU is king on the RENIX so if it doesn't see what it wants to see, it won't let the engine run at all or if sensor inputs are erratic due to corrosion/grounds it will run very poorly as the inputs will be telling it bad information.

Just a note for us purists: Key has these positions:
START, RUN, OFF, ACC
When the key is turned to START, the electrical circuits make the starter crank the engine. When you release the key, a spring makes it go to RUN. That activates other circuits. It gets really confusing when people say it won't run in START etc.

Sorry if this sounds fussy but just trying to help.

cruiser54

Not fussy at all!!!

You guys feel free to use this as needed:

No Start Clarification

When your vehicle isn't starting, you first need to make an important distinction as to the type of No-Start you have.

There are two basic types of No-Start conditions: Crank/No Start and No Crank.

When an engine cranks, you can hear it spin, but the engine doesn't catch and run on its own. That’s Crank/ No Start.

So with a No Crank, you don't hear the engine moving at all. You might hear a click or buzz but other than that, nothing

darknezz7

ecu, pcm, ecm, all the same thing really, the brain of the engine.

Not sure if all you guys really read what its doing since your saying things that don't apply or that I have already tried.

Thanks DF, so sounds like the ecu is not grounding the relay or its one of those fused links. I had a BMW give me all kinds of random stalls, stumble under hard accel and random no starts because of a fusible link buried in a wire loom.

Just to clarify I did not GO IN the ocean water, lol, that doesn't sound too smart. I drove ALONG SIDE the ocean.

No it does not prime the pump with key to run, I have to have the fuel pump relay jumped to get it to stay running.

I'll reground that brown wire at the ignition switch and check out the links.

67 GMC

Hey-We're just trying to help and can go only with what you write here and not what you think you meant.

"Just to clarify I did not GO IN the ocean water, lol, that doesn't sound too smart. I drove ALONG SIDE the ocean."

When you said "took the Jeep out on the dunes and in the ocean," wouldn't we think you took the Jeep into the ocean and got wet? You swim in an ocean but walk on the beach etc. You wrote it-we read it.

"Not sure if all you guys really read what its doing since your saying things that don't apply or that I have already tried."

You've only posted twice and had 7 replies. One post is your problem and what may have caused it -i.e. "driving in the ocean" and the second time to take shots at the people who are trying to help you out.

So how do we know what you've tried other than "Jumped the fuel relay" "ignition switch -the one on top of the column"??? Is there more than one ignition switch in your Jeep?

Don't get cranky. We're all just here to help. We're not paid by the hour.

cruiser54

Well stated, and true.

DFlintstone

You can check it with a meter. 30 I think is always hot. One of the side ones gets power with the key on. The one opposite that one is grounded by the puter. 87 powers the pump through the ballast resistor.

I know I sound redundant, but want to be clear. All four functions can be checked at the relay socket. (if the pump runs when you jump from 30 to 87, that kills two birds)

OH! Could have mentioned earlier, the fuel pump relay is the second one in the row of 4>>

darknezz7

ok, sorry to sound smart ***, I forget that this acc doesn't show all my info, for some reason I cant get into my main one that I've been a member for over 6 years...

I keep my Jeep maintained, all ground were just refreshed not long ago. Yea ok I did say "in" the ocean, I was tired, I mean on.

Iv'e already checked the relay and I only get a keyed 12v on 86, no ground or anything else. But yes I have 30 and 86 jumped and the pump comes on with the key in run position and I can start the engine and it will stay running. I figured that out in about 30 minutes out on the dunes...

So the starter relay is that main silver one with the post and bunch of wires to it. Hmm might be that then. Need a diagram and to test it.

So In "run" the fuel pump terminal on the starter relay should have power, then goes thru the ballast resistor, which I have bypassed (I know you said the fuel pump relay goes thru the resistor but this says different?), then to the fuel pump relay where the computer still has to ground the relay?


I checked all the links I could find and all the connectors, everything is clean still.
I never have pulled off the ecu connector though so I guess thats last try.

sounds like ecu to me

DFlintstone

They are independent, parallel. The starter relay juices the fuel pump while it's cranking. Then, after the ECU get's a signal from the CPS that the engine is running it grounds the fuel pump relay, which then takes over. If you get keyed power at 86, it's 85 that either isn't getting grounded or the relay is shot.

In your shoes, (after trying swapping that with the AC relay,(as mentioned above)), I'd strip some fine copper and run it out from 85, plug in the relay, and see if grounding that pig-tail makes the pump run, (IGN on). If it does you likely have a problem with the wire/connections to the ECU.