Baddad

Posting this for my wheeling buddy. He asked this in Najax but really don't get many responses. The 320k rig he refers to is my Old Moldy 😋.

I have done a bunch of searching and cant quite find the answer to my question. I have a 1988 Cherokee that is built. 5.5 clayton long arm lift, exocage, etc. etc. I have been working on this thing for years. When I bought it, it was a heavily wheeled rig and had cracks in the body at the top of the hatch that I welded back up. The front door hinges were jerked away from the body so far that I had to sledge hammer them back and do some welding to get the doors to work again. Rear frame crushed, but plated, repaired and working. The jeep when I bought it was a trailered wheeler. I have worked my butt off to make it a freeway capable rig again as we freeway travel between offroading. I know this wasn't the smartest way to go, but I wanted an exocage, and this one was nicely done, so I went for it. When I wheel it, the creeks and squeaks of the body are plentiful. It might just be me, but it "feels" like the body is flexing A LOT. It just doesn't feel like a "solid" jeep. Enough, that when I am really crossed up I expect the windshield to pop out. This always kind of bothered me. Then after I rode in my buddy's XJ with 320K on the odo and his doesn't squeak almost AT ALL when wheeling. It really has a solid feel. So, it makes me feel like my unibody might have seen better days and might be nearing the end of its life. All that being said, absolutely no cracks in the frame rails, or anywhere other than around the hatch. All doors and the hatch always open. I am getting ready for my next phase of mods, which will be pretty spendy, permanent mods that I cant switch to another jeep, etc. We wheel pretty knarly stuff, so the jeep will continue to get a workout. If I try some more plating to stiffen things up and tie in's to the exocage, am I likely to attain that solid feel I am looking for, or once these bodies have been flexed for so long is it a losing game with eventual body failure? I am considering buying another XJ to start over with. A stocker with no wheeling history. This means a ton of work to do all over again, so that is my dilemma. Hopefully this makes sense. Thanks in advance.

TRCM

I replied over there too....put frame stiffeners on it.

and 320k...that's still wet behind the ears......my 88 has 380k on it

tech

I think I would have got another body then built up the jeep it sounds like it was beat to begin with . but you did a lot to help it but the body was probable to weak when you got it .

Rogue4x4

So, I just gotta ask...OP, did he (your buddy) install frame stiffeners? If he didn't, what the hell did he tie the cage into? If his exo isn't tied in to a solid foundation, it's like lipstick on a pig...he may have even made it worse, by adding fulcrum points...

Agreed, sounds like it had some frame damage to begin with if the rear had to be rebuilt and reinforced.

My .02 is to get another, and start from scratch, and do it the right way. Yes, it's a lot of work. He'll be happier in the end though.

Jeepin'_Aint_EZ

this x2

Cane

i think this points to the most logical answer. it sucks because time and money was involved but if currently everything can be swapped over (probably easier said than done, but still) i'd agree that getting a new shell, swapping everything over and then going into it with the new mods might be the best idea.

sounds to me like he didn't. by saying there's no crack in the frame rails I just assume it's there's no stiffeners because there would be no way of knowing what's under. plus when talking about "permanent mods that can't be switched to another jeep" I imagine stiffeners is part of that plan. that's my $0.02

TRCM

Agreed.....................( not my buddy, so not sure if you were directing this at me or not)

From what I remember, he just welded the cage to bumpers & plates he welded to the unibody.......he should have done full stiffeners, but didn't, now he has problems that could be fixed by doing so, but didn't seem to want to have to cut & weld around what was already there to get the extra strength of the added thickness.

Rogue4x4

Wasn't directed at you, but the OP, who stated he was posting "for a friend", haha...

He may or may not be able to fix it now...I wouldn't even try at this point. It shoulda been addressed right away, who knows where the weak links are now? Stiffeners would help, but, by not doing it the right way to begin with, there's probably several areas, that can't be immediately seen, that are now compromised. By probably, I mean there ARE, haha...

My suggestion remains the same. Get a new one, do it the RIGHT WAY from the get go...as I stated above, exo cage doesn't mean "everything on the outside"...you still need to tie in to a solid foundation, in several key points along the structure. Not just front and rear....

Since it seems that's what happened, look at it like this...take a copper wire, and clamp it between two points. Grab it in the middle, and move it up and down. Keep doing it. Eventually it's gonna break. That's essentially what happened here.

This is why it's so important to know what you're doing when it comes to off-road fab...anyone can run a bead. Not everyone can engineer.

Welding and fab go hand in hand, yet are two entirely different animals.

TRCM

Say it isn't so.......I mean you can't be serious...........

Baddad

He bought the Jeep with the cage already installed. It is tied into the "frame" with plates at several points. I agree that tying it all together with stiffeners would help, but may not solve the entire problem.
As a side note, has anyone seen where someone has tied their exocage into the roof, door pillars, etc to spread the load thru the entire structure? Makes sense to me since it is a unibody design. This might help stiffen the entire structure also. Thoughts?

Rogue4x4

Okay, let's take it one piece at a time....


He bought someone else's headache then. It was done wrong from the get go. Probably made an existing problem even worse.

At this point, the damage is done, I wouldn't even bother. Stiffeners should have been done first, would you build a house without a foundation?

No. I've never seen it, and wouldn't even try it. As stated, the damage is already done. That thing is never gonna be the same, and I wouldn't even be driving it on the street, if it's as bad as you say...also, it's a uniframe, not unibody, design. There's a difference.

Ditch it. Start new. Do it right. Don't let someone else's bad decisions become your nightmares...

Suprmn

O.K. I am the owner of the jeep in question here. Thanks to my buddy for posting over here and thanks to those of you that have responded. I agree. I bought this thing built and have been doing nothing but trying to fix the bad stuff from the previous owners. It is a decent jeep now and has survived several wheeling trips. I am getting ready to take it to the next level so that is why this question is being raised. If I am going to start over, no time like the present before I pass the point of no return. Only so much money and time to be had.

Suprmn

Here is the Jeep in question. I bought this because I liked the cage. I was still in the learning stage of Jeep XJ's and having done minimal fab work prior to this, doing my own cage seemed beyond reach. So I looked past the beat to crap part of things and started to rebuild. I have been fighting handling problems, and frankly, there is so much bent stuff on this jeep it has taken awhile to get caught up. At this point, its actually a decent jeep. But like you have mentioned, the beat part is still underneath and that is what bothers me. Just trying to figure out whether that's all in my head, or if there is something to making sure the body is sound before taking this thing further.

Rogue4x4

Okay...glad you responded...and that we put a face to name so to speak...

Seeing that jeep, I will say, that cage is lacking, but don't take that the wrong way, it has potential. Looks to me like they got halfway through the project, then for whatever reason, stopped, and got rid of it. There definitely needs to be more triangulation/tie-in points for the cage, there's no B-pillar support at all, and nothing over the front end. Also, the lack of stiffeners is a huge red flag.

That said...I'd like to ask what are your plans for the "next step"...at this point, I would keep it as strictly a trail toy...not a streeter, so not all is lost, I just wouldn't trust it on the road, if I caused some kind of accident because the structure of my jeep was to blame, I'd never forgive myself. Nothing wrong with keeping it as a trail toy, though, if it breaks, it will have a minimal impact on the public...

So, I'll revise what I said, under these conditions only:

Definitely don't street it. Keep it as a weekend fun toy. Trailer it to the spots, and beat the ever loving **** out of it, and use it for learning how to do things properly.

Add stiffeners. This will help, but won't be a cure, I fear there's always going to be an underlying issue there. But might as well prolong it if you can, and have fun with it. Once stiffeners are added, tie into them properly. This will also help. Then to further all that, finish off that cage.

At that point, I would continue with whatever plans you have for it, if it makes sense. I personally feel that with some work, it can be a great trail rig, for a few more years...maybe longer, depending on use.

One man's opinion.

Baddad

This is what I don't understand about everyone recommending to use it as a trail only rig or the whole thing is trashed and to start over. The Jeep has been used HARD! But, there is no rust, nothing, zilch! I see all the time posts about guys in the rust belt looking at the ground thru their floorboards, rockers rusted into nothing, spring mounts so rusted you have to remove everything with a torch and chisel, etc. And then people say "oh that's common", "fixed that many times", "no worries, you can fix that", etc... So the question being, rust has got to be hidden everywhere in those rigs but it seems everyone is ok with it being "fixable". But one that has no rust, all the doors and windows work, there are no more visible cracks, the front leaf spring mounts have been replaced, the Clayton long arms are properly installed, and it seems to get condemned? I'm not saying anyone's right or wrong, just don't quite understand. Don't get me wrong, starting over with a fresh rig that is prestine would be the best way, but the unsafe condemnation of this Jeep I just don't get. It's not a daily driver but is used to travel to destinations on the road. Every year we do a mini "Ultimate Adventure" so that's the most miles it gets during the year, 800+ miles this year. Just curious...