Lift vs articulation arguement
 

Alright guys, my friend and I are having a debate over articulation and how it is affected by the size of your lift/coil spring. On the front of a Cherokee, does the coil spring height affect articulation given the same LCA's, and the correct shock/swaybar combo?
example: lets say we are running the EXACT same Long-arm set-up on 2 cherokees. The cars have the same shocks, tire/wheels, and sway disconnects. One car has 6.5" coils and one has 8" coils. will the 8" lift jeep articulate more? if so, will it even be worthwhile?

He thinks money spent is going high, I think money spent is modest lift and lockers. Given the same money being used in either case.

I know this is a kind of rediculous arguement, but I cant find enough information on this to get a concrete awnser.

thanks!

Lift height does not equal articulation

Ah I see what might make the difference...is CARS tend to not get lifted but Jeep CHEROKEES do
Lol

Any ways remember in a VERY simple put way lift is to get bigger tires. Bigger tires is to get your axle off the ground. So a in sure others will say, its how well you can get a good balance between height and tires. there's a guy here with a amazing Jeep cherokee that is all about lcog. Can he articulate and stuff his tiremore than a eight inch suspension, maybe. But look at buggies, they're not very high and can squat and articulate like crazy. My two cents. I'm sure others can input with better info

Yes they will articulate the same amount but usable articulation won't be the same. If the coil isnt even touching the vehicle it doesn't really help much with traction. I think 6.5 inches is still too tall. 5 is about right.

Side not, bigger tires are also used to make obstacles smaller.

A 31" tire crawling over a 25" ledge will be more of a challenge than a 44" tire crawling over the same 25" ledge.

You also have to consider what you are doing with the center of gravity, you may not be able to flex it out for fear of flopping with an 8" lift.

I am told all the time I have to much flex and I am at 5.5" of lift on 35's... its all droop.

you could lift a vehicle 18 inches and only get 3-5" of flex, or lower a vehicle, and get 20 inches of flex. all depends on the limiting factor of the suspension. Lift height has really NOTHING to do with flex at all. it comes down to the shocks, brake lines, steering, control arms, geometry, ect. What binds first is whats going to limit your down/up travel.

are long arms the best bang-for-buck upgrade to get better articulation and effective flex?

You can get pretty good flex out of adjustable short arms with drop brackets, but a well set up mid or long arm suspension will outflex it anyday. The limiting factor between the two is normally shock length. You can only squeeze so long a shock on a cherokee. I have 12s in front and 14s out back, and the 12s are still my limiting factor up front.

if you had a re-do what front/rear length would you have gotten.

You don't need lift to flex , But you will need it on an XJ if you want up-travel , and ultra low lifts with big tires are all or mostly droop ,which will suck if wanting do go fast whopps type wheeling ...An XJ with a 4 inch lift an 38's will flex big time if the shocks are long enough and the coils trapped ,but that rig will not be friendly if trying to go fast on big bumps and jumps since it will have no room for compression .

I see that argument as big gay truck vs a usable trail beater, but its all really about the use of the vehicle. Pure mudding, yea you want it sky high. For crawling and trail riding, you want it alittle lower to reduce your center of gravity. Flex is all about how many $100 bills you rub your suspension with, it can go both ways. And yes shocks are always the limiting factor in flex, hence why you see people cut holes in their floors and hoods to put longer shocks in.

Low cog... 4.5in lift... 40's but I got a deal on them... I could fit 46's easily... Super duty axles which are wide as crap (forget wtw now)... Mines not going to be so much about up travel but thats fine because I got low cog and dont really need to stuff all to much...

Yea but climbing a 25" ledge with a 31" tire is so much more fun than it would be with a 44" tire :head:

And thats KTM's low cog thread by the way... And I know many have seen these but heres mine and its stance...

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Ya but climbing a 50in BOLDER is way more fun with 44's... Lol

Absolutely!

That thing looks like it's getting raped by a Jungle Gym.....















;)
:rofl:

Cage was on a 4 door lol... Gotta make a couple changes yet to clean it up... Fit body line better but for $50.... :P

I can unseat and walk away with a coil with my OEM CAs in their OEM location.
Yeah? Some folks dont wanna stick to just small ledges. See below.

Rapped or raped?


Hey, Travis....is that exo centered? :brows:


Lolol j/k, love the rig. Always makin me jealous.

Damn these phphatt phingers!!!

Oh man, I know the pain...all too well!! :laughing:

U shut ur face... Lol

Fine! Come get me a dang exo for $50!!! :lol:

Uh... Ill keep an eye out but may take about a year or so of constant searching... Lol... Like my $400 full hydro setup already made for a xj with my superduty axles ;)

U should just buy a house down here... TRANSFER!

Thanks for all the responses guys! SOlidified my thoughts on this. On a semi-relevent note: would long arms on a 3.5" lift be stupid if I wanted to take the suspension one step at a time? is there a kit that will allow good adjustment from a 3.5" to 6.5" at a later time?

thanks! you guys rock!

3.5LA's has been done a lot.... As to what kits allow it ive never heard of one not so I think your good...

3.5" Long arm is a great setup IMO. Great travel, still low and stable. You can fit big tires with bump stopping and trimming

I am planning on going long arm around christmas or next spring with my 3.5" running 33's

awesome man! I'm considering the serious long arm upgrade in fact :brows:
but I still have yet to install my 4.5" short arm lift... haha

I know ironman4x4fab long arm kit will work for 3.5. FUll-traction and a couple other companies have ones that will work as well. Most are made for 4-4.5" + So unless you go custom your options are few, but ironman4x4 makes awesome stuff.

TNT, Full-Traction, Ironman 4x4 are the only ones I can remember that work at 3.5"

When I go La I plan on going with TNT

hung out with the owner of T&T customs at jeep beach all weekend... wifes pretty cool too ;)

I have a RocKrawler long arm setup Front and rear on my Jeep. The same long arm kit will be limited to the shock length. My lift kit is an 8 inch spring, with a 3 inch spacer on 35s. Out here in Arizona, it is street legal, and to have as much flex as possible, I run my down travel at ride height at 4 inches of down travel. Here is what I can produce.
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Articulation is based on the shock used as a limiting strap. The correct shock legnth will alter the flex. You can either make the tire suck up into the fender well... OR droop like I have mine. There are a few reasons here in Arizona why I have my Jeep lifted like this. But this isn't going to work in certain Eastern states due to the different terrain.

Cool rock light.

How often does it get crushed?

Both of the rockers are beat up, and all 8 of those rock lights were smashed in not too long ago. I bashed in the rockers, and now I have a good reason to boatside my Jeep. Here is what they look like.
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http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t...52689594_o.jpg
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Haha, I kinda figured.

I want to put some in, but I gotta protect them first.

Very nice rig! :cheers:

Ok so what does droop mean exactaly?
I'm running 4.5 ( pieced together) on 33's, any advice/suggestions on what I should do since I need to change out the front suspension?

Droop is movement of the axle or tire downward (Down Travel)
Stuffing a tire refers to the upward movement. (Up Travel)

Droop is controlled by the shortest component connected to either side of the axle. Often times it's limited my shocks or brakelines that are too short for the application. limiting straps are always a wise addition to any rig that has excessive down travel.

Up Travel is limited by the tallest component. This should be a properly installed bump stop. Shocks that are too long will act as bump stops and they will not last very long doing so.

Excessive droop may look good in a poser pics but it really serves no purpose. Once a coil unseats you've pretty much used up all of the useful articulation since you're now relying on the unsprung weight of the axle to maintain tire contact with the ground. Without additional weight from the rig, that wheel looses traction.

Keeping all four wheels firmly planted provides greater control and traction.

What you dont see around here much is suck down winches. They are tied to your axle and gives you the ability to compress your suspension to get weight on the tires you need. I see alot of LCOG rigs run them to manipulate the suspension

How can you do that ? Short springs? Did you cut your shock mounts? I can unseat my 3" coils but stock arms hit the shock mounts.