CoffeeCommando

What's interesting about that is Snow Perf. did dyno testing on pure methanol, and a 50/50 meth-water mix. The mix gave more horsepower and torque (a noticeable amount, not a small one), but they didn't display a dyno of pure water (remember, they sell methanol so they're not going to let you know pure water actually does better than using their Boost Juice; it's a conflict of interest with the sales department).

There's a reason the diesel community runs straight water. It's better, and cheaper to boot. Methanol is an expensive gas, water is a cheap source.

My goal from the outset has always had one principle pervasive through my journey: the most power and mileage with the least amount of effort and cost. HHO was where I started, but that doesn't mean I have to stay inside that boat when I can see a better alternative.

You juice 20-25 amps from the alternator consistently and you'll burn it up. THey're only engineered with a 10-15% extra capacity to them (so for our 90 amp OEM setup that's 9-14 amps). ALso, before the alternator kicks the bucket you have been undercharging the battery most likely, so now it's got a lower voltage and the new $120 alternator will now have to overcompensate for both the weak battery and the 20 amp load from your generator. It won't be long before it goes too. And remember, you're not juicing these amps at speed when the alternator is most capable of providing it's largest amount of charge, you're doing it at idle and lower RPM cruising speeds as well. No alternator is making full charge at idle. Aftermarket alternators that will properly do the job and actually live a while without needing taken out and having burned up components replaced are going to start at $300 and go up from there.

Why use all those electrons to turn water into it's largest state for a 25-40% increase (and the closer you get to 40 the more you're likely running over 30+ amps), creating lots of heat in the process, just to implode it in the cylinders, and burn up a $120 alternator and a $130 battery?

I can only us 3 amps, not burn up my alternator and battery, or heat damage the default OEM wiring (another thing to think about), to use cool water to expand from the internal combustion heat naturally to increase power, and actually reduce heat in the engine to boot? It's just better. You'd have to jump through hoops to even remotely theorize a reason that wouldn't be better than HHO, and it's also at a fraction of the cost, and is simpler because you can use tap water. HHO needs distilled water and a finicky mixture of electrolyte, as well as large gauge wiring and a $120 PWM to manage it.

I think fogged water is a better idea, and it's different from HHO. There is already an HHO community. I'd rather make something that is better and make sales into the HHO community who is already in the market for better gas mileage and more power. Most people that don't know about HHO out there will be scared of either system. I can't re-sell a $600 HHO system to someone who already has one just to give them a marginal increase; but I can add on top of that something that will increase power and MPG for a fraction of the price using the water more effectively. That is where I am at now, and increasing the water for larger engines is as simple as adding a nozzle. I had to pull 10-15 amps on my car to get the improvement (without electronics tampering with the O2's actually, but I have a more evolved-expensive system with magnets) to get that. That was for a 2.5 engine. At 5.0 the alternators don't double in amperage with the liters of an engine so HHO doesn't scale well, and like I said you're robbing Peter to pay Paul (electrical system vs MPG).

HHO does work, but there is a better way to use water to increase power and mileage, that's my point. I'll prove it later on, but for now I must find a job and restore my experimental USD's.

Bugout4x4

I read your replies last night on the way to bed. Give me a bit to get caught up in here and gather a few things and I will be back later with a comprehensive reply Sir.

Bugout4x4

Here are the facts from our local CF Chemist. He is right about having the correct ratio of all the chemicals introduced. You can't drown it with too much of one or the other. Just like the brush pile, Water will make it actually burn better until it drowns it out and kills the burn. There is a minimum temp that has to be maintained for proper thorough burn.

And this is most definitely not true. every see some of the tractor trailers going down the highway at night? What's the consistent amp draw on our rigs with just the fuel pump and electronics before you even turn on the lights and possible trailer lights?

Willys55

you think a tractor trailer runs amps, should see some of our fire apparatus

Bugout4x4

Do those have alternators like my old Detroit *****? The one on my coach is the size of a 220 AC 5k generator and has four belts driving it. lol

Outlaw Star

Wade, you lost me at WATER in a DIESEL.

I ain't dumb enough to be that guinea pig. Snow has extra money to blow if the engine does, not so much me.

CoffeeCommando

After taking some piracetam and re-thinking the engineering to cost ratio I've decided against the misting apparatus and have decided to rethink my original plan of transduced fog for sub-30 micron level droplets. Plumbing it under a non-paper filter should let the stuff pass right through the air filter as the engine vacuum creates more demand. Getting the right mixture is as simple as leaving enough space above the foggers for the fog to develop.

It just requires some engine'uity to wire up the setup since you can't get large 12v transducers. This setup would be much simpler, only requiring wiring and hosing. That frees up finances and simplifies the whole setup. To get a true fogger that uses a mister body costs too much and usually requires the use of an air compressor on top of it, as well *** needing water pressure to feed it. Too much juice to squeeze for one orange far too expensive.

The only question is how much water will develop in the feed hose to the intake over time. I guess I could T in a PCV breather filter at the lowest point to let it act as a drain point... except now it's potentially submersible in water puddles. And who knows how long these chinese peices of plastic-ware will last. What a sticky pickle it is trying to get things just the way you want them to work.

CoffeeCommando

There's a video of a guy emulsifying gasoline with water at a 50/50 mix and running his old SUV off of it. It seemed like it was more popular in the diesel community, and water injection for diesels is a thing. Don't fear, water fuel is here to save the day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emulsified_fuel

Looks like there is someone trying to get a business started with it too:

Outlaw Star

If cost is that big of a concern for diesel, just stick to bio fuels. People like those guys have too much money to waste compared to people like us. Lol.

I thought about toying with the idea, just for a design project. After all, I have a few gallon jugs of battery electrolyte fluid.

CoffeeCommando

Batteries use electrolysis similar to HHO generators to generate the transfer of electrons that powers vehicles. The process is the same, but the way the electrons are used is different.

Water is the only truly free energy source outside of the sun. Fossil fuels will run out, but I expect before they do we'll have independent tinker'ers making combustion engines running completely on water. Everything can be burned to release it's energy. Only in water do you have something that isn't chemically altered in a way that is permanent. It turns into a gas that will re-condense back into it's water form (maybe because it has no carbon in it). Just about everything else natural in the world has carbon and burning it produces an irreversible chemical reaction; the result can't be undone and repeated.

With a powerful enough ignition reaction at the plug you could ignite water. That's one reason I am interested in something like those Nology hotwires, although I've seen some guys on youtube just use simple capacitors bridged across the + and - of a spark plug multiply the ignition. It was a very noticeable visual and audio difference. It's amazing how we've gotten electricity into every home in the U.S., can power cars on electricity alone, and gone to the moon and back; but spark plugs haven't been made powerful enough to ignite water. It's ludicrous, and it's suppression.

I want to get my next job so I can get a fog generator setup going and use a plasma ignition setup. Both will increase power I am sure, but I thoroughly expect the combination will yield a synergy.

CobraMarty

Emulsifying water and fuel is interesting.

I am sure that on some level this is happening when we inject fuel/gas and water into the supercharger. They become 'emulsified' by the SC rotors, beaten, compressed, thoroughly mixed together. IDK more power or more economy, but it works.

CoffeeCommando

Actually, I think I might see where you're coming from on the diesel setups. They use the natural heat (on modern diesels) since they're compression ignition. Ambient temperature water would absorb that heat and offset the intended ignition, assuming you had enough of it.

Diesel chambers run at 800+ degrees and water starts expanding to steam at 100C or 212F. I can offset that problem by using a heated setup with the misters so it's warmed up before entering the chambers.

Using too much water will bog down any engine, but pre-heating it would allow you to be able to run more if that was desirable.

CobraMarty

There are some special 'fogging' nozzles.

Hole size 0.008-0.012".
Droplets 20-500 microns, that is pretty small.

Here-They have a bunch of different ones
http://www.bete.com/products/pj.html

It could be run off of a WMI 200-259psi pump.

CoffeeCommando

I agree on that. The only difference is instead of using a high frequency vibrating plate that costs hundreds of dollars for scientific use you can use the heat. The more I look into energy the more I see that heat is replaceable by frequency use. That's how microwaves work after all. You're vibrating hydrogen which creates friction which creates the heat. Frequency usage for energy purposes is a highly under-explored field. Tesla believed the entire world could have free energy and said the earth rings like a bell with energy.

If you think about it, the cosmic "radiation" from the sun is just that, microwaves that heat up the planet. That's what radiation is, frequency; and with it you can alter molecular structures through vibration. If anyone doesn't believe that they're thoroughly blind about the idea every time they use a microwave.

Bugout4x4

What I'm waiting to see is someone trying to inject DEF into the combustion chamber of a diesel. Lol Not sure it's been done yet has it?