austinjoe13

I'm looking to get a new sub because I think mine is wearing out. When the volume is higher, the sub knocks. It's a Kicker C10a, not positive on the power handling because it's an old stillwater product and I can't find anything on it.

I have a 300w bridged amp that can handle 2 ohm drivers. The box is 1.55cuft and sealed, well within the range for the new C10.

Here's my question: Is the Kicker C10 the best 300w 10" sub for under $100?

xj_maniac_newb

The kicker is nice, but if you move up to the CVR10 then you definitely wont blow it.. Ive always found the regular comps dont last that long really, but the cvrs last for freakin ever and can take lots of abuse.

austinjoe13

I was just looking at the VR. Will an 800w sub run fine of a 300w amp?

Jeepjunky

i had a 1200w kenwood powered by a 300w kicker and it was good in the xj. i was kinda suprised

and the kenwood blew out

xj_maniac_newb

Yeah it'll work just fine. I had my two 1200 watt RMS 12's on a 200watt for a while.. sounded just fine. Jw, was you setting up your system based on the peak rating or the RMS rating?

Jeepjunky

hmmm, im not sure, it was all given to me and me and a buddy hooked it up in an hour so i dont know any more

austinjoe13

I bought the sub and amp together used. I'm assuming he paired them based on peak power.

xj_maniac_newb

Its always a good rule of thumb to pair them to the RMS rating, if you can get your subs pushing at optimal RMS it normally gives you the best quality and sub life.

austinjoe13

I just went and took a look at my amp. It doesn't say anything about RMS but it does say 300w max output 2 channel. I assume it's 150w RMS

xj_maniac_newb

Its not necessarily the amps max, I have never really went by checking the number necessarily anyways, its more of a guidelines really. Best way ive found to ensure the best sub life and quality is to turn your system to its max of what you'll turn it up to in a short burst and adjust until you get the amp turned down/up to match what the subs can handle at a constant rate. I personally have mine set up to be capable of being played for hours on end with the volume at the max.

macgyver35

Power ratings on subs are just indications of how much power they can handle, not how much power they need. It can be given in peak, RMS, or both. Just because you have a 1000 watt capable sub does NOT mean you need an amp anywhere near that kind of power for it to sound good. The car stereo industry makes a habit of taking advantage of people that haven't studied the physics behind sound and who don't understand the math. They make up a lot of jargon that sounds impressive, but it is sometimes misleading or flat-out wrong.

Something to keep in mind...
You have to double the amplifier power to get a 3.1 decibel increase in volume. So, assuming the same speaker is used, an amp pumping 1000 watts to a sub will only be 3.1 decibels louder than an amp pumping out 500 watts.

Also, you need a 10 decibel (or over 3 fold doubling of power) increase to gain a perceived (by your ears) doubling of volume. I.E 30db sounds twice as loud as 20db. 80 db sounds twice as loud as 70db. For example, if a sub puts out 100db at 50 watts, I'd need to put over 400 watts into it to get 110db out of it So, using these two mathematical rules of the physics of sound, a 1000 watt amp will not sound twice as loud as a 500 watt amp. It will sound roughly 33% louder, for quick and dirty math. Look at the subs rating at 1 watt/ m1 meter (usually indicated as SPL). It will usually be in the 85db-91db range.

Let's use a speaker rated at 90db SPL @ 1 watt / 1 meter and apply the 3.1 db for each doubling of power rule.

1 watt = 90db
2 watts = 93.1db
4 watts = 96.2db
8 watts = 99.3db
16 watts = 102.4db
32 watts = 105.5db
64 watts = 108.6db
128 watts = 111.7db
256 watts = 114.8db
512 watts - 117.9db
1024 watts = 121db This sub is about 8 times louder at 1024 watts as it is at 1 watt (perceived volume doubles with each 10db increase. 90>100 = 2 times, 100>110 = 4 times, 110>120 = 8 times).

Another example: SPL is 85db

1 watt = 85db
2 watts = 88.1db
4 watts = 91.2db
8 watts = 94.3db
16 watts = 97.4db
32 watts = 100.5db
64 watts = 103.6db
128 watts = 106.7db
256 watts = 109.8db
512 watts = 112.9db
1024 watts = 116db
2048 watts = 119.1db
4096 watts = 122.2db

As you can see from the examples above, the first sub (more efficient) puts out more sound at 512 watts than the second sub does at 1024 watts! It pays to buy efficient subs!! We'd also have to pump over 4000 watts into the second sub to get it to top what the first sub can do at 1024 watts!!


You can substitute your sub or speaker's 1 watt / 1 meter rating in at first position in the above lists and add 3.1db to each doubling of power to get how much sound you'll get out of it at various wattage levels.

Yes, I know there are other variables like variations of sound in the source material, acoustic gain depending on vehicle and sub placement, etc. But for any given sub/box/vehicle/positioning configuration, these rules hold true.

Again, the math and physics behind sound is far more long and complex than what I've described here. I tried to distill down some of the basic concepts and most pertinent information the average person would use when selecting a sub or planning a system. Hope this helps some of you.

Also, you may want to check out my own subwoofer install here:

https://www.cherokeeforum.com/f67/re...nstall-133158/

austinjoe13

Thanks Macgyver, that helps a bit.

I'm looking at RF subs right now. How are the prime series subs?

austinjoe13

I've decided on the base Kicker comp 10. I've got one more question... Which sounds better, 2 or 4 ohm? I know that 2 ohm will draw twice as much power as the 4 ohm, hitting harder, but is it typically a good sound? Or should I get an 8 ohm being that I have such a big box?

macgyver35

Again, this is one of those misconceptions that has been propagated by the car stereo industry.

On a given speaker, a 2 ohm or 4 ohm version will "sound" the same. One will not sound better than another, necessarily. Some 2 ohm setups will be marginally louder, with the amp putting out more power in 2 ohm configuration, but the increase is usually negligible except in enormous 4000+ watt systems utilizing 4 or more subs. Refer to my previous post on how much of a power increase you have to have just to get a 3.1 decibel increase in volume. The sound is produced by the cone and it's movement/response speed, not by the nominal electrical resistance of its voicecoil. However, the VOLUME will be different at a given power input between 2 ohm and 4 ohm versions of the same speaker.

The more resistance a voicecoil has (higher ohms) the more the cone will move in response to a given power input. So, for quick and dirty reference, you get greater movement at a given power level from a 4 ohm speaker than a 2 ohm, all things being equal. On a side note, I won't go into detail here, but the ohm rating is nominal and not constant. It changes as the voicecoil moves in relation to the magnet.

Anyway, it's important to match your ohm rating on your speaker to that of the device powering it. If you are powering it directly from an aftermarket car stereo, that will be 4 ohms (some factory systems use 6 or 8 ohm setups as this reduces power draw and allows use of smaller gauge wiring). If you are powering it through an aftermarket amplifier, you could go with a 4 ohms or 2 ohms speaker depending on what the amplifier is rated for. Putting a 2 ohm speaker on a 4 ohm amp could burn out the amp once driven to higher volume (I.E higher power demands on the amp).

If you are just going to have one sub, stick to 4 ohm. It will produce more volume at lower power levels than a 2 ohm, which means you don't need as powerful an amp, and you won't need as heavy gauge a wire to power the amp. You'll save money in the long run (cheaper amp and wiring), and you won't notice much, if any, difference in volume or sound quality. Generally speaking, you'll get the same volume out of a 4 ohm setup at 500 watts, as you will out of a 2 ohm setup at 1000 watts, assuming use of a single sub.

There are some decibel benefits to using multiple 2 ohm subs wired in series as pairs (creating a 4 ohm load) and each pair attached to a channel of a 4 ohm amp, as you gain a few decibels with each added sub sharing a channel, but we'll save that for far more involved systems. Imagine (8) 2 ohm subs, wired in series as pairs, and each pair attached to one channel of a 4 channel amp. You know, those crazy loud, annoying as hell systems that will pop the eardrums of any person in a 1/4 mile radius.

If you are going to run two subs, either use a two channel amp with a sub on each 4 ohm channel, or buy two 2 ohm subs and wire them in series (creating a 4 ohm load) an hook them to a single channel (or bridged 2 channels) of a 4 ohm rated amp.

Evo8

Infinity Reference 1062w 10-Inch 1,100-Watt High-Performance Subwoofer (Dual Voice Coil)

$60 shipped from Amazon - I have it and love it.