CB Newbie
CF Veteran
Joined: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,364
Likes: 37
From: Dont Colorado Wyoming
Year: 1990
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Well, first of all, that's a good article with lots of useful info you lined to. GOOD FIND!!!
As far as the single vs. dual antenna question, I vote single. Yes, with a dual you will probably get a slight gain in front and rear send receive, but actually at the expense of loss of side to side. So unless your certain that everyone you will want to talk to is either behind or in front of you, all the extra cabling, cost and installation just isn't worth it. One of the reason's most people assume 2 is better than one is because they see one on each side mirror on 18 Wheelers. The reason for that however, is because the majority of trucks carry 13'6" High enclosed trailers so they need one on both sides to help compensate for signal blockage of trailer and since the Federal Guideline for bridge height on federally funded roadways is, I believe, 13' 9", it would be impossible to mount a single antenna on a truck tall enough to reach over trailer and not hit overpasses.
Link to a good webpage that helps explain benefit/disadvantage of dual instead of single antenna.
http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=20
If you decide to still use duals though, just make sure they are matched pairs and use 75 ohm cable of same length from each one to transceiver. As the link above states, also try to keep distance between antennas UNDER 9'. Also, the antenna is the most important part of the system, so try and get the best one you can afford.
I personally prefer masts or coils over the fiberglass sticks, but up to you and your budget. I would personally recommend a Predator 10K(w 17" shaft & single coil & mounted to rear bumper), MonkeyMaid(mounted to rear bumper), Wilson's(mount dependent on model) or the time-tested standard 102" stainless whip(mounted to rear bumper) if run single. If determined to run duals though, I would go with Firesticks or Wilsons, Just make sure they clear top of vehicle by at least a foot, 2 if possible, if not mounted to top of vehicle and make sure to stay away from low branches if do mount to top. whichever you chose, make sure to get SWR set properly.
Link to a webpage I found that sells mentioned antennas.
http://www.cbcity.com/category/Antennas-32/rec/48
As for using an SWR meter to tune CB, see if this helps:
The SWR meter needs to be placed in line between the antenna and the CB. Connect the antenna (normally connected to the back of the CB ) to the connector marked "Antenna" or "Ant" on your SWR Meter. Connect one end of the short jumper coax to the "transmit" or "Xmit" on the SWR meter. Connect the other end of your jumper coax to the CB.
Assuming you have a standard SWR meter the switches should read as follows: REF or SWR, FWD, and there should be a slide switch marked "set" or "Adjust". If different consult your meter's owners manual.
With the radio on the lowest channel (1 on CB) and the SWR meters switch in the Forward (FWD) position, depress the transmit switch (key up) located on the microphone. While holding the unit in this transmit mode, adjust the meter needle to the set position using the Set or Adjust **** on the meter. As soon as the needle is in alignment with the corresponding mark on the meter face, flip the switch to the Reference (REF) position. The meter is now showing your SWR on channel one. Note the value and quickly release the microphone switch. Record this reading.
Repeat the previous step on channels 19 and 40.
How to read your results: If SWR on channels 1, 19 & 40 is below 2.0(this to me is absolute max and would be advisable to get below 1.5, the lower the better(perfect is 1.1)), your radio can be operated safely.
If SWR on all channels is above 2.0 but not in the "red zone" (normally over 3.0), you may be experiencing coaxial cable reaction (bad quality, wrong length, etc.), insufficient ground plane, or have an ungrounded antenna mount.
If SWR is in the "red zone" on all channels, you probably have an electrical short in your coax connectors, or your mounting stud was installed incorrectly and is shorted. Do not operate your radio until the problem is found, serious damage can occur to your radio.
If SWR on the lowest channel is higher than it is on the highest channel, your antenna system appears to be electrically short. Your antenna length may need to be increased.
If the SWR on channel 40 is greater than that on channel 1, your antenna is considered to be "LONG" and reduction of physical height and/or conductor length will correct this situation.
GOOD LUCK FROM A TRUCK DRIVER!!!
As far as the single vs. dual antenna question, I vote single. Yes, with a dual you will probably get a slight gain in front and rear send receive, but actually at the expense of loss of side to side. So unless your certain that everyone you will want to talk to is either behind or in front of you, all the extra cabling, cost and installation just isn't worth it. One of the reason's most people assume 2 is better than one is because they see one on each side mirror on 18 Wheelers. The reason for that however, is because the majority of trucks carry 13'6" High enclosed trailers so they need one on both sides to help compensate for signal blockage of trailer and since the Federal Guideline for bridge height on federally funded roadways is, I believe, 13' 9", it would be impossible to mount a single antenna on a truck tall enough to reach over trailer and not hit overpasses.
Link to a good webpage that helps explain benefit/disadvantage of dual instead of single antenna.
http://www.cosjwt.com/index.php?a=20
If you decide to still use duals though, just make sure they are matched pairs and use 75 ohm cable of same length from each one to transceiver. As the link above states, also try to keep distance between antennas UNDER 9'. Also, the antenna is the most important part of the system, so try and get the best one you can afford.
I personally prefer masts or coils over the fiberglass sticks, but up to you and your budget. I would personally recommend a Predator 10K(w 17" shaft & single coil & mounted to rear bumper), MonkeyMaid(mounted to rear bumper), Wilson's(mount dependent on model) or the time-tested standard 102" stainless whip(mounted to rear bumper) if run single. If determined to run duals though, I would go with Firesticks or Wilsons, Just make sure they clear top of vehicle by at least a foot, 2 if possible, if not mounted to top of vehicle and make sure to stay away from low branches if do mount to top. whichever you chose, make sure to get SWR set properly.
Link to a webpage I found that sells mentioned antennas.
http://www.cbcity.com/category/Antennas-32/rec/48
As for using an SWR meter to tune CB, see if this helps:
The SWR meter needs to be placed in line between the antenna and the CB. Connect the antenna (normally connected to the back of the CB ) to the connector marked "Antenna" or "Ant" on your SWR Meter. Connect one end of the short jumper coax to the "transmit" or "Xmit" on the SWR meter. Connect the other end of your jumper coax to the CB.
Assuming you have a standard SWR meter the switches should read as follows: REF or SWR, FWD, and there should be a slide switch marked "set" or "Adjust". If different consult your meter's owners manual.
With the radio on the lowest channel (1 on CB) and the SWR meters switch in the Forward (FWD) position, depress the transmit switch (key up) located on the microphone. While holding the unit in this transmit mode, adjust the meter needle to the set position using the Set or Adjust **** on the meter. As soon as the needle is in alignment with the corresponding mark on the meter face, flip the switch to the Reference (REF) position. The meter is now showing your SWR on channel one. Note the value and quickly release the microphone switch. Record this reading.
Repeat the previous step on channels 19 and 40.
How to read your results: If SWR on channels 1, 19 & 40 is below 2.0(this to me is absolute max and would be advisable to get below 1.5, the lower the better(perfect is 1.1)), your radio can be operated safely.
If SWR on all channels is above 2.0 but not in the "red zone" (normally over 3.0), you may be experiencing coaxial cable reaction (bad quality, wrong length, etc.), insufficient ground plane, or have an ungrounded antenna mount.
If SWR is in the "red zone" on all channels, you probably have an electrical short in your coax connectors, or your mounting stud was installed incorrectly and is shorted. Do not operate your radio until the problem is found, serious damage can occur to your radio.
If SWR on the lowest channel is higher than it is on the highest channel, your antenna system appears to be electrically short. Your antenna length may need to be increased.
If the SWR on channel 40 is greater than that on channel 1, your antenna is considered to be "LONG" and reduction of physical height and/or conductor length will correct this situation.
GOOD LUCK FROM A TRUCK DRIVER!!!
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,481
Likes: 18
From: Arizona
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
I was an early CB'er in the mid 70's to early 80's before I became a ham and operated very carelessly then as for power and antenna wise a 60' tower with a 6 element beam way to much power base and mobile. The FCC located an operator a short distance from me and he was also illegal they took all of his gear thousands of dollars worth and fined him $25,000. I shut mine down the next day as I think it was me they were looking for.
Amazing how good hammers are at triangulation and locating illegal broadcasters. Sounds like they got very very close in your case before they reported it to the FCC.
But seriously... these guys are out there just killing the CB band and bragging about their output. I have to turn down my receive gain to almost nothing in order to block out broadcasts from the East Coast, Alabama, Alaska, and Hawaii.
Wish they would stay in their own very generous number of privileged AM bands and leave the CB frequencies alone.
Last edited by Bugout4x4; Nov 6, 2015 at 10:14 AM.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
Senior Member
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 766
Likes: 5
From: Los Angeles, CA
Year: 1989 Limited
Model: Cherokee(XJ)
Engine: I-6 4.0L AMC Renix
Another question. Could a cb antenna double as a radio antenna if grounded like a cb but the coax is split into a radio antenna got the stereo system? I doubt they'd work at the same time but just curious
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
The problem with that is that the power being put out by the CB is millions of times higher than the signal you are trying to receive. You'd blast the front end out of the radio.
CF Veteran
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 17
From: Monett, MO.
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Amazing how good hammers are at triangulation and locating illegal broadcasters. Sounds like they got very very close in your case before they reported it to the FCC.
But seriously... these guys are out there just killing the CB band and bragging about their output. I have to turn down my receive gain to almost nothing in order to block out broadcasts from the East Coast, Alabama, Alaska, and Hawaii.
Wish they would stay in their own very generous number of privileged AM bands and leave the CB frequencies alone.
But seriously... these guys are out there just killing the CB band and bragging about their output. I have to turn down my receive gain to almost nothing in order to block out broadcasts from the East Coast, Alabama, Alaska, and Hawaii.
Wish they would stay in their own very generous number of privileged AM bands and leave the CB frequencies alone.
In recent years I have worked DXCC confirmed by ARRL over 100 foreign countries using QRP (5w) from my home station. It depends a great deal on propagation as to where you can work at any given time. I still do this in the XJ with that same QRP radio and homemade wire antennas on mountain tops.
This is still done on the CB channels at times as we all know, extra power helps but not required to cover great distances at times.
BTW its the outlaw CB'ers that have became a problem on the ham bands 10m most of all with illegal radios lots modified at truck stops and have garnered the attention of the FCC in recent years.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,481
Likes: 18
From: Arizona
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
True fact...two wrongs do not make a right...and I knew I was opening a can of worms with the direction of my comment and should have been ready but I had to make an emergency trip out of town yesterday. You covered several issues that really should be addressed for the benefit of both parties. Please afford me a bit to catch up my friend, because some of these issues really need to be addressed individually
Should we start a dedicated two way communications thread so this is all in one place rather than bouncing around?
CF Veteran
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 7,554
Likes: 17
From: Monett, MO.
Year: 1999
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Want to make one thing clear ham radio ops do not operate on CB channels period. None would run the risk of losing their license and equipment. I have well over $85k invested in that hobby and that .isn't a drop in the bucket com paired to many others.
I do use my CB for trail use in the XJ the only one I have installed mobile anymore.
I do use my CB for trail use in the XJ the only one I have installed mobile anymore.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,481
Likes: 18
From: Arizona
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Want to make one thing clear ham radio ops do not operate on CB channels period. None would run the risk of losing their license and equipment. I have well over $85k invested in that hobby and that .isn't a drop in the bucket com paired to many others.
I do use my CB for trail use in the XJ the only one I have installed mobile anymore.
I do use my CB for trail use in the XJ the only one I have installed mobile anymore.
I understand what you say here Fred. Unfortunately it is not the case anymore. Although you have old school integrity as an old school hammer and try to share this integrity with those you test it doesn't remove the human factor. Just like everything there are more bad apples everyday that ruin it for everyone that is trying to do it right, proper and legal.
I have for the last few years logged thousands of hours listening to hammers brag about the fact that they can broadcast at whatever wattage they like on the 26.96500 to 27.40500 AM frequency band because they are holding a license. They even brag about what they paid for their equipment and what a good deal they got so that they could pump out 2000 watts.
I even have a base unit with a VFO soldered into the channel 9 circuit and have been "listening" on these all of these frequencies since the 70's. I have made notes of the callers and even recognize their voices when the same get on the CB bands. Then they share their call sign once in awhile and confirm it.
You said it...There is abuse for sure...but it truly is not one sided. Just go listen for a bit and you will understand that your integrity is now becoming rare. Unfortunately your old school integrity Fred has been nulled by the FCC. They just don't care anymore and our own government has let us down on this one my friend.
I have to run and take care of some business but would really like to pick this back up again if you don't mind Sir? There is a real problem on both sides that needs to be addressed so that we can all broadcast and receive with less noise as it should be.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,481
Likes: 18
From: Arizona
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Distance man distance...and a principled network that has more than once throughout history saved lives and countries. The first radar defense system was built around known amateur radio technology and experimentation. It really is supposed to be a very tight ideal and is definitely the last line of communications if the **** ever hits the fan.
Got to give these guys credit just for the time they have invested in dedicated monitoring for years on end.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
I understand what you say here Fred. Unfortunately it is not the case anymore. Although you have old school integrity as an old school hammer and try to share this integrity with those you test it doesn't remove the human factor. Just like everything there are more bad apples everyday that ruin it for everyone that is trying to do it right, proper and legal.
He was operating on 11 meters with that rig, while his license was suspended for running too much power. It was not his first suspension. He was bragging about it. I wanted to spit on him.
Another time I installed a base station and 5 or 6 450 MHz radios for a business that had, for years, been using CBs with 150 watt linears. They finally decided to get legit.
Yeah, there are bad guys on both sides of the aisle.
Distance man distance...and a principled network that has more than once throughout history saved lives and countries. The first radar defense system was built around known amateur radio technology and experimentation. It really is supposed to be a very tight ideal and is definitely the last line of communications if the **** ever hits the fan.
Got to give these guys credit just for the time they have invested in dedicated monitoring for years on end.
Got to give these guys credit just for the time they have invested in dedicated monitoring for years on end.
No argument with the good that hams do in times of crisis. They have been invaluable during some of the major wildfire problems in southern California, for example, and during hurricanes in the Gulf states. They do FAR more than most people know.
But the rest of the time? Yap yap yap for the sake of yapping.
That radio shop I worked at was a hamfest a lot of the time. The boss was a ham, one of the salesmen was a ham, and that meant we had a 50% ham population in our shop. Plus, the boss was good friends with a guy who owned a string of electronic shops in southern Cal (Hurley Electronics, for any old-timers in So Cal). Since he had bucks, he could indulge his ham hobby so he owned a handful of 440 repeaters on nice commercial mountaintop sites. Not many hams have access to that! So he and his buddies often hung around our shop, thus the hamfest appearance.
Being a newly minted college grad-jee-eight with a degree in that kind of thing, I was initially very interested in the ham world. But listening to the drivel that passed over those radios from all these hams convinced me I wasn't interested. It was talk for the sake of talk. I have better things to do.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 7,965
Likes: 964
From: Lost in the wilds of Virginia
Year: 1998 Classic (I'll get it running soon....) and 02 Grand
Model: Cherokee (XJ)
Engine: 4.0
You mean put the box back in under the seat and plug it in? I can tell you what will happen if everything is working.
You'll see the screen light up on the control head (the part where the dial is) and the numbers flash briefly, and you should hear a sort of BONK tone from the speaker, then it will sit there a look at you.
That's it. There's no network for it to find anymore, as the old analog stuff has all been turned off.
CF Veteran
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 4,481
Likes: 18
From: Arizona
Year: 97
Model: Cherokee
Engine: 4.0
Here's something important about the radio situation. You can walk into any large truck stop and just buy brand new "Export" radios with CW, AM, FM 10 meter and side bands out of the box. So basically the FCC has given up on enforcing even FM in this frequency range and it can almost be compared to deregulation. FM in this band is now pretty much wide open for public use because there will be no enforcement coming.
What good it does...they do come with a warning sticker about licensing to use though, this is all the FCC is ever going to do...make them put a sticker on the radio. They dropped the ball on this one. But honestly...it isn't a very large band of frequencies we are talking about here, why not? Why shouldn't the public also have the ability to broadcast on a small range of FM band too?
Hammers have a whole spectrum of privileged waves and frequencies but deep down would rather have absolutely no public broadcasting at all. Then they come on the AM public channels and wipe them out with their equipment. After all these years I now see this as a bit selfish extremism on their part. It really is a very very small band of frequencies we are talking about here.
Last edited by Bugout4x4; Nov 8, 2015 at 09:33 AM.